Why didn't Foreman get a rematch against Ali?

Try reading some contemporary literature on the subject, then you'll realise it's you that have fallen victim to "revisionist bull****". :good

 

He lost to Jimmy Young and that ended it

 

Ali wouldnt risk it.

 

Mike who?

 

Exactly. Mike Schutte- former South African heavyweight champ whose best win at the time of the Ali negotiations came against Rodney Bobick. The fight fell through and Schutte would spend the next few months losing to Coetzee and being sparked in 2 by Knoetze.

 

You JUST beat me to it.

 

:yep


Sorry mate. You know this subject is one of my 'hobby horses'. :hey

 

Well yes, you are the definitive authority on this one. I trust ya every word.

 

If Foreman had beaten Young and Ali continued to avoid him (which he might well have done) it would be a definite mark on his record. Ali got a bit lucky there...

 

I think you miss the point.

 

The thing is Ali himself said he didn't really want to fight all the top contenders at that time and there's no doubt he was willing to fudge around the top contenders before he retired. This is fair enough I suppose, but when people claim Foreman didn't deserve a shot simply because he didn't fight in 1975 and things like that is ridiculous. Tyson didn't fight for four years, beat a couple of puddings then received his title chance about six months after he came back. No one thought it was that undeserved then. Patterson blown away by Liston is next in line for a crack after Sonny's rematch. Yeah, Floyd's shot was justifed maybe because he beat a couple of contenders. Foreman had beaten 2 of the top 4 in 1976 and owned a massacre over the #2 contender (and #1 in some eyes)- Norton. The match should have been signed in October 1976.

 

Was Foreman more qualified from 1076-1977 than most contenders? My answer is yes. Was the Ali-Foreman fight a match that absolutely needed to happen? I'm not so sure. Let's not forget that their actually meeting was hardly a controversial affair. Foreman was flat out KO'd, and with plenty of time to spare in the match. It wasn't like Ali was rescued by partial officiating or judges that watched the fight with a blindfold. There were very good reasons for seeing triliogies in the Frazier and Norton sagas, but I'm not sold on the idea that Ali's confrontation with Foreman was destined for one. Following the Rumble in the jungle, Foreman took some 16 months off. During this the same duration, Ali had continued to defend the title 4 times including defenses over Ron Lyle, Joe Bugner and Joe Frazier. Upon returning to the ring, Foreman looked very rusty against Lyle, albeit a good performance against a quality foe regardless.

 

I suspect it was Foreman who was reluctant to take Ali on a second time, even as a title challenger. George should have gotten right back on the horse immediately, but squandered 1975 while Muhammad compiled one of the greatest calendar years of any heavyweight champion ever.

Shavers couldn't beat Ali in 1977, so I don't see how the lighter hitting (what a kick to use that phraseology when discussing George!) Foreman could have created a different outcome than the faster Shavers, especially with Muhammad dictating the terms of the rematch. Ali might well have insisted on a 24' X 24' Olympic sized ring complete with fast surface.

Muhammad fought George's fight in Kinshasa and knocked him out cleanly. To this day, Foreman must have nightmares about hitting Ali flush with the hardest right hand of his career, only to have Muhammad scoff, "Is that the best you've got?" Replaying round five at night must still cause George to wake up in a cold sweat. (How'd you like it if somebody laughed at your best shots?)

Trevor Berbick rarely reached Ali's head in the Bahamas, and I had Muhammad decisioning him 97-93 on my scorecard, even as fat and misfiring as he was. (Ali was MUCH better against Berbick than Greg Page and John Tate had previously been.) Trevor did not fight Ali much differently than Foreman would have been doing in a rematch. Berbick, for the most part, ineffectually flailed away at Muhammad's body in mid ring, an attack well smothered by Ali's arms. (Ali/Berbick deserves much more careful scrutiny through expanded viewership than it has received over the years. No, Muhammad should not have been boxing by then, and had been misfiring ever since Shavers, but he was still a tough and resourceful customer, certainly moreso than the youthful Foreman was.)

Straight punching trumps looping shots, and speed trumps power. Maybe George would have had a better shot after Muhammad came out of the Shavers bout, but Foreman still didn't have the reach or speed to nail Ali on the button repeatedly as Earnie was able to do. (While we all know about how the three year exile and Manila took a toll on Muhammad's competitive abilities, I believe it was Shavers who finally robbed him of the hand-eye coordination he needed to remain a championship caliber heavyweight. I also believe that he sustained far more boxing related drain bramage from Earnie than from any of his other wars.)

Bottom line: George failed to EARN a rematch, first through inactivity, then by failing to convince that he could produce a different outcome in a rematch.


After previewing this post, I was going to trash it, being as doped up on cold medicine as I am at the moment. Then again, I've deleted the last twenty posts I prepared, so what the hell. It's not as if I'm submitting this to some sports magazine or other venue for profit. Might as well click "Submit" before I renege.

 

Foreman was his own worst enemy. It is considered normal for a champion to take a breather after an epic victory. Thus, Ali himself had to play the waiting game after FOTC, simply because Frazier had earned a holiday. No one, not even Ali, clamored for an immediate rematch. And properly so.

Yet, notice the difference between Ali and Foreman after their losses. First, Ali brushed himself off and got busy, defeating all the top contenders and so pressuring for a rematch. Foreman retired, came back to stage a disturbingly erratic exhibition against 5 men, suddenly got serious again, meets with stiff opposition that pierces him with three knockdowns and a loss, then retires again.

Sure, Foreman ranted darkly for immediate satisfaction, but he simply didn't pay his dues.

These mistakes were the genesis of the flabbergasting transformation of the man. He learned arrogance would get him little whereas patience is a virtue. Against Moorer, he rightfully got his payback.

 

How so?