Why didn't Hopkins-Toney happen

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Eye of Timaeus, Nov 7, 2019.


  1. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mc Callum was the more skilled operator in my view.
     
  2. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The disciplined Hopkins stayed at 160 lbs. until past the year 2000. The undisciplined Toney jumped up to 168 lbs. in early 1993, 175 lbs. by 1995 and Cruiserweight by 1998. Then, he jumped to HW by 2002. When Toney was a HW, Hopkins was still a MW.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  3. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They didn't really "fight in the same division for years."

    Only until early 93.

    Toney was a well established 160 lb champion while Hopkins was still moving up the 160 lb. rankings.

    I guess they could have fought in 1992-1993 but that's about it.

    Toney moved to 168 before Hopkins fought Jones for the vacant 160 lb. title.

    After Hopkins lost that fight, Jones became the more lucrative opponent and Toney fought Jones at 168 lbs
     
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  4. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No no the fight was in serious negotiations in 2003 but then Bernard backed out. James really wanted that fight, Bernard pulled some BS excuse at the end.I guess he knew what was coming.

    At middleweight I agree there was never the right time to make that fight.
     
  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    a search, reveals very little to confirm that. Other than there were talks and an agreement was made in “principle”, but nothing ever confirmed for one to pull out of. I am not sure by the midway point of 93 Toney could keep making cruiser. Hopkins could have likely done LHW which is the weight he said in the above article he would fight Toney at...not sure it’s feasible even then, despite the bluster and bravado of both guys.

    edit: LA times says they are in talks for the 190 title, but Hopkins says he will fight at 175

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    but as far as I know nothing was ever agreed/signed to pull out of. I don’t think their weights in 03 were going to allow this to come off either way
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It was never going to happen and was mostly publicity. They were fighting 30 pounds apart but hey we'll blame Hopkins. He should have jumped straight from 160 and fought Toney at 190. Truth be told Toney may not have ever made 190 again. His very next fight 5 1/2 months later was against Evander Holyfield at 217!!!! His next was at 227 then over the 230's. Unreal. If he had half of Hopkins dedication and professionalism he may have really been something. Maybe.

    I've seen it alluded that Hopkins was actually Toney's mandatory at the turn of 2003 when Toney moved up.
     
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  7. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He stalled James for weeks.Bernard never returned the contract signed.Then James finally fought Holyfield where he was a 3-1 underdog.
     
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's true that Roy wanted to fight Tito in 2001.

    He was a big name.

    I'm glad it never happened though.

    Regarding a Hopkins rematch, the fault lies with Bernard 100%.

    Everybody remembers their live spat on HBO. But what many people don't know, is that after the dust had settled, Mark Taffet of HBO met with Bernard privately away from the cameras. And at that point, he didn't want a 50/50 split of the pot. He demanded $10m. There were no discussions to be had to try and reach and compromise, it was simply: "$10m or no fight!"

    Mark Taffet is on record stating that that happened. And he knew at that point that Bernard had absolutely no intentions of fighting Roy again.

    You have to remember that this was back in 2002. Bernard had already won King's tournament and there was nothing else to achieve. You also have to note that apart from his fight against Tito, he was been paid around $1m for each fight.

    Bernard flat out ducked Roy. And then he took over a year out of the ring before coming back to fight Morrade Hakker. Then after the fight, he called out all of the JMW champs. See below:



    Regarding a Toney fight in 2003, it was nothing but a fantasy:

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  9. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I hadn't read this post before I posted mine.

    Bernard was obsessed with Roy.

    He waited and waited until Roy had diminished enough for him to fight.

    In the build up to their 2010 rematch, Bernard admitted that his loss to Roy played on his mind every single day.

    When it came to Roy, Bernard was just like Joe Calzaghe: A scavenger.

    After Bernard had watched Joe beat Roy, he told the media that he had no intentions of fighting Roy again as he was no longer 'Superman' which meant that a fight would be completely pointless. Yet despite what he'd said, he then pushed for it, which was against the wishes of Naz Richardson. He wanted the fight so bad, he even claimed that Roy had been hard done by in Australia against Danny Green.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  10. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Rubbish.

    I've told you countless times what happened, but you just don't want to hear it.
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bernard was all mouth.

    He would never have moved up to fight Toney in 2003.

    He was calling out JMW's in 2003.
     
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  12. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This.

    People slate Toney for eating his way up to HW, but Hopkins boiled down to 160 for way too long.

    He could have fought Joe, RJJ etc, but chose to fight blown up WW's.
     
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  13. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Rubbish.

    you cannot be reasoned with, when RJJ is in the discussion! Good luck
     
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  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No.

    Not at all.

    You are the guy who's tried to convince himself that they didn't fight again because they couldn't compromise on a split etc. But that is not what happened.

    Bernard Hopkins demanded a crazy $10m purse which he knew was never possible, before then calling out all of the JMW's to move up and face him.

    He flat out didn't want to fight Roy.

    He wouldn't even negotiate with Mark Taffet of HBO.
     
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Let's say Toney sticks around for another year at MW and defends against Hopkins in 1993, who you got?
     


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