Why Didn't Larry Holmes Ever Unify The Title?

Yes, it was....... BUT! As I recall that while Holmes was still the WBC champion in Nov. of '83 for his TV blow-out of Marvy Frazier, Holmes' belt was not on the line cuz the WBC refused to accept Frazier as an opponent.... However, be as it may, Holmes was soon stripped of the WBC belt for failing to sign a paper stating he'd face Greg Page for a mere 2.5 million dollars.... Come 1984, Holmes would accept the IBF belt and face James Smith in Nov. of 1984 on HBO....

MR.BILL

 

I know.. That fight cannot be counted as a title defense for Holmes.. But regardless of the obvious mismatch, Frazier was no slouch opponent.. He entered the pros with only two losses in 60 amateur fights, and was beating reasonably good comp... Ad that to the fact that he grew up in a boxing family and had been learning the trade since diapers, and he was probably better than Quick Tillis, Scott Ledoux, Lorenzo zanon or other forgetables of the period...

 

Perhaps that is why Marvis Frazier came in cocky and jiving with Larry Holmes in ring center during the opening stanza... I have the fight from '83 on tape... I've seen it 100 times since then.... Frazier mocked Holmes a few times and even dropped his hands on one or two occasions..... BAD MOVE!!! Holmes shot down the pike a right hand that caught Frazier flush in the mouth to drop his ass..... Frazier got up hurt and was quickly pushed to a corner where Holmes unloaded the kitchen sink on him.... Mills Lane halted the slaughter at the 2:59 mark of round ONE!!

MR.BILL:hat

 

I don;t know what the man would have been better off doing.... Passing up the big paydays against Holmes and Tyson to build his record up a tad against some of the better contenders, or just take the money and retire with two first round knockout losses.... I have often wondered how he might have done against Tony Tubbs or Greg Page.... Witherspoon would have probably kicked his ass though...

 

Marvis Frazier was ****ED in the 80s....... Frazier was slightly too big to make the limit of 190 for the Cruisers at the time, but also too small to handle that 208 to 212 pounds he was carrying to fight heavyweights... I think a fit Frazier would be solid and good at 195 to 200 pounds, but NOBODY was there in the 80s.........

MR.BILL

Note:

Leon Spinks was dead at 190 pounds for Qawi in 1986..... I have that fight too on tape..... Dwight butchered Leon to death........

 

The better question is why isn't he criticized more for not having done so.

 

I dont know how you come to this conclusion that he was ****ed. His only two losses were to Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson, both of whom were arguably top 10 all time greats.

He had a win over future title holder Bonecrusher Smith, as well as world title challengers James tillis and Joe Bugner. He was a solid contender, who just wasnt an all time great and probably didnt quite have the chin to hang with the very best. I seriously doubt that he would have beaten all time great cruiserweight Evander Holyfield either. But his shortcomings were more to do with ability (99% of boxers had the same problem) than anything else.

 

Point is, by '86, and after his icing by Tyson, Marvis Frazier only fought a few more times against ordinary heavies to seal off his career in about 1988 or '89 just shy of age 30........ Yeah, M. Frazier had a decent career and made a few bucks for the family, but hardly anyone outside of boxing knows or cares about that.........

Had Cruiserweight been at 200 pounds in the 80s, Marvis Frazier may have won a world title there..... Plus, he prolly could've been fairly dominant too...... Marvis Frazier was certainly on par or even better than "Leroy Murphy, S.T. Gordon, Bernard Benton, Ossie Ocasio, Alfonso Ratliff and Jeff Lampkin" for cryin' out loud........ A peak Carlos DeLeon and Dwight M. Qawi may have posed problems for Frazier in that era.... Who knows?

"Holy-Frazier" at 200 pounds in 1987 would've been a war if Frazier was properly prepared mentally............. Holy was pumped and psyched at 190 in 1987........
MR.BILLthumbsup

 

Marvis' problem was Joe ... Marvis was an excellent boxer, speedy with a good punch for a cruiser ... Joe remade him into a version of Joe and that was not Marvis ... that being said Marvis still had some decent wins at heavyweight ... he was just not fighting his style ... it is a shame because he could have been a champ at 195 for sure ...

 

I happen to know Holmes very well and speak with him often. He has been having beers in the mid afternoon for over twenty years and he is not a drunk at all. He simply likes his beers, period. I remember when he was about to fight Tyson and he was proud to say he was only drinking two beers day after training ... we are talking about a 6' 4" , 250 pound guy ...

 

nothing wrong with a few drinks.

Now over doing it is other thing.

 

A young and Green Frankenstein Bruno...WOW

Page was erratic but Bey went on to prove his value by winning only 4 of his next 17 fights after Holmes. He never impressed me

Young came into this fight and the rematch so badly out of shape he had giant Man tits and it was a slapfest...Ocasio was a 13 fight wonder

Spinks GOT KO'd in 1 rd by Coetzee, then fought a draw with Eddie Lopez , then he beat big lug Bernard Mercado who was Ko'd by Weaver in 2 and John Tate in 5...He happened to get off the floor and out-stamina Shavers but ran out of gas vs Spinks...Dont remind me how weak this era was. Spinks got Blasted by Coetzee

When Berbick beat Tate, Big John just got devasted by Weaver and lost his title he got hit in back of the head by Berbick and threw up on the ring apprond. Big John was ruined.

How do we measure Berbick...ummm Mike Tyson

Still Weaver, Thomas, Coetzee,Dokes, were better than most of Holmes opponents and Page had the style as erractic as he was to beat Holmes, thats why they ducked him and gave up a title..Page did not train but he was in shape for Coetzee and would have been for Holmes.

 

He also could have fought Pinkon Thomas, Tim Witherspoon (who he had beaten in the amateurs) or Trevor Berbick orDokes (who was taken the distance by a Frazier victim), Coetzee, Page, or Tubbs. All could have got him a world title (like the cruiserweight title) but really they would have meant nothing. And as you say, no one outside of boxing would remember him anyway (nor would they have, if he won the cruiserweight title).


I agree with you, that he could have had some good fights with the cruisers you mentioned, but then again, so could Michael Spinks! I think Frazier's career was actually more commendable than those who hid in the cruiserweight division. He fought at his best weight, he tried to fight and beat the best fighters available. And he did well, despite coming up short on two occassions. I think he gets far more criticism than is deserved.

 

Yes, Fridays are Larry's drinking days. He will have his "fun" other days too, but Friday is the only consistent day. Larry got very pissed recently and is somewhere in Puerto Rico right now, so I have no doubt he is having his fun over there too.

 

Marvis Frazier gets the shaft because he was shafted UN-INTENTIONALLY by Papa Joe........... We all agree that Joe Frazier TRIED to mold Marvis as a brawling / mauling type of fighter who applies pressure and goes to the opponents body....... Problem was, Marvis lacked heavyweight strength and lacked a wicked powerful hook like Papa Joe........

NOW! I have "4" Marvis Frazier fights on tape..... I have Frazier versus "Holmes, Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith & Tyson." I really LIKED what I saw in Marvis Frazier when he beat James Tillis and James Smith.......... Marvis actually boxed them dudes rather well..... He got nailed and dropped by Smith in the mid-rds of their '86 fight, but Frazier got up and chugged forward in the fight.... Smith was too friggin' slow to ever land anything else......

MR.BILL