It was you that said one of the reasons Wills would not fight Greb was that they were in different weight divisions,I merely quoted you.:huh
It's funny,I put what I felt was an intruiging question up ,ie .How would things have turned out if Joe Jeannette had beaten Burns instead of Johnson? After about three replies it vanished without trace,Yet an innocuous question like this thread runs to 4 pages,not that I'm not gratified .
I never said Wills would not fight Greb and in fact have argued the contrary post after post. What I did say was that Wills would have looked foolish calling out the middleweight champion and it was up to Greb to lobby for this fight. As far I know and off the other posts. Greb never did. As for Tunney--after he beat Dempsey and was champion, Wills was still the #1 contender. The fight with Sharkey was three weeks off. Tunney issued this statement: "Somehow it seems to me that it is not for the best interest of boxing that heavyweights, and champions, in particular, shall clash in mixed matches." Quoted from TUNNEY by Jack Cavanaugh, page 313. So the door was closed to Wills once and for all even before he lost to Sharkey.
Others have said Greb lobbied for the fight I don't know.I was unaware Tunney made that statement,and to be honest would treat it with caution,it is fact that Tunney offered to fight Wills before he met Dempsey. I misinterpreted your remarks concerning the weight differences.
What is your source for Wills being rated no 1 while Tunney was champ?The Ring Ratings have the following [yearly ratings]. 1926 Champ Tunney 1 Dempsey 2 Sharkey 3 Maloney 4Uzcudon 5Wills 6 Renault 7 Persson 8 Hansen 9 Risko 10Montgomery 11 Seifert 12 Demave 13 Munn 14 Dekuh This is presumably after Sharkey had beaten Wills. So did Wills drop to number 5 on the basis of he Sharkey defeat? In passing I note that of those rated Wills met 2, Uzcudon and Sharkey, Sharkey gave him a hiding ,till he fouled out and Uzcudon stopped him.
Tunney actually signed a contract with Rickard to fight Wills--see New York Times 8-12-1925--However, this came while Wills was negotiating with Dempsey for a fight for Floyd Fitzsimmons. I can't really see Wills breaking off negotiations with Dempsey to suddenly fight Tunney. Wills and Dempsey in fact did sign for a fight in October, which eventually fell through when the cheque given to Dempsey bounced. In 1926 with Dempsey signed to defend, Rickard could apparently have picked Wills but instead decided to match Dempsey with Tunney. I read James P Dawson on this brouhaha in an April, 1926 Times article and he felt the Dempsey-Wills fight would have been the bigger moneymaker. The New York Commission demanded that Wills get the shot, so Rickard went out of state. Paddy Mullins said in the 1925 article that Wills was willing to fight Tunney if there was a signed contract that he would get Dempsey if he won. If there no such contract, he did not want to negotiate a Tunney fight. This does sound reasonable to me. On Tunney--the 1925 and 1926 negotiations are so Byzantine, who knows how many escape hatches there were. Tunney apparently was under contract to the Polo Grounds who might have skuttled any Wills-Tunney fight if it were signed. The value of Tunney's 1926 remark is that it comes when he was in the driver's seat and seems to indicate that he was not much interested in fighting Wills if it wasn't absolutely necessary. There is at least the chance that the 1925 negotiations were a charade.
There was three weeks between Tunney assuming the championship by beating Dempsey and Wills falling to Sharkey. Wills was still the man considered #1 from 1925, although Dempsey would also now be in the mix. Tunney issued his no mixed matches statement before Wills was beaten and dropped in the ratings. In other words, as I judge it, Wills would have been out of luck even if he had defeated Sharkey, if one takes Tunney at his word.
I don't in the least blame Wills for not fighting Tunney he had allready earned his chance ,but as Tunney was willing to fight Wills ,I would not take on trust remarks purported to him that he wanted in effect to draw the colour line later. Roberts book on Dempsey goes into some detail about the machinations surrounding the Wills Dempsey non fight, trying to unravel the plot.
It isn't the first color line quotes I have seen from Tunney. If I remember correctly, I read something like this in TIME MAGAZINE from 1926. Cavanaugh's book is not well footnoted and I have no idea where he got this quote, but he is a respected journalist and the book was generally scored for being too pro-Tunney. My take is that it is really not fair to criticize Wills. Look at his position. He is negotiating with Dempsey and Fitzsimmons for a title shot. Rickard announces behind his back that he has signed Tunney to fight him. Remember, Wills has never been part of this negotiation. When Wills signs with Dempsey, Rickard announces to the press that he, Rickard, has Dempsey under exclusive contract and this fight can not come off unless he promotes it. Is Dempsey aware of what sort of contract Kearns had previously signed? In 1926 Rickard ignores Wills and matches Dempsey and Tunney. When Tunney wins, Gene puts out a statement that he is against mixed matches and Wills is out in the cold. Was Dempsey a free agent when he was negotiating with Wills? What had Kearns done behind his back and to extent did Dempsey or his lawyer even know about it? I just don't know and I don't think Wills did either. The whole negotiation between Dempsey and Wills might well have been a charade with Dempsey, Fitzsimmons, and Wills being completely ignorant of the actual legal situation concerning Rickard.