Why do Idiots think Floyd Mayweather had more talented than a prime Roberto Duran?

Pacquiao was put in the teens by many historians including Bert Sugar. So ranking highly can still be done.

 

Lol ali and rjj beg to differ.

 

Burt sugar is a joke he had pea Whitaker around 50 in his top 100 fighters list. That right there shows you how much of a joke his list is.

 

Post Fab Four, Whitaker and Pacquiao have come the furthest.

Pacquiao is unquestionably greater than Mayweather in my book and it is not an issue of dislike for Money May.

Pacquiao did what a few fighters could do in history, and he stands alone in modern times for being a man who went from 106lbs, basically light flyweight to beating a big guy like Antonio Margarito.

I don't think people understand the fact that Pacquiao as the small aggressive fighter was meant to be flattened by an aggressive super featherweight Morales. Aggressive fighters are just not meant to rise up weights successfully. Especially Pacquiao's style.

Pacquiao was not meant to ever make it to 140lbs, he was meant to be KTFO left, right and centre and then retire by that time. He was not meant to beat Hatton.

Someone with Pacquiao's history vs Cotto is an absurd matchup. Cotto should have KTFO Pacquiao. People forget this because they're lost in the division narrative of 'May vs Pac'.

Pacquiao not just beat, but demolished everybody, from all-time great Barrera to a big Cotto at this point. All of a sudden he's demolishing a 165lb Margarito?

Pacquiao at 147lbs is a silly concept. Pac was past prime from his terrible showing in his win against Mosley. Pac then went on to IMO lose to Marquez in the third fight. Marquez was understanding Pacquiao more and Pacquiao was no longer the same blitzing threat he once was.

Pacquiao then has a lacklustre win against future HOF Bradley, twice.
Get's KTFO and not only is he physically well past prime at this point but now he's psychologically shot - we saw proof of that when he faced Mayweather and was gun shy (he would take bombs by Cotto previously to land his own, and was so wartorn from wars against all-time great aggressive fighters and just a very long career). Pacquiao also torn his rotator cuff and was denied pain medication for it, whilst Mayweather was using forbidden IV's which most people agree (fans and boxing ****ysts alike) to mask PED use. Pacquiao thus lost to Mayweather. Pacquiao was not meant to be able to fight someone as big as Mayweather in the first place.
Pac the small, aggressive, war-torn fighter was 36 years old, what would you expect?

Pac went from losing to the 5'2 Torrecampo to winning the WBC title against the elite Sasakul at flyweight, and somehow shoots all the way up to light welterweight as the aggressive athletic fighter? Let's not even get to his welterweight days.

I declare Pacquiao to be Top 25 of all time (around 18th-22nd, where Whitaker is).

 

I would submit that PBF is in that range as well. Certainly he's top 25 it's just a question of whether or not he's top 15 - 20.

Great post btw.

 

Not no but hell no pbf ended that talk when easily beat pac and tooled the guy who knocked him out in jmm. Pbf is greater even roach said pbf was the best fighter of the era hell 90% of boxers will say that as well. Your opinion is well off base and won't stand up. Historically pbf is better and will be remembered accordingly.

 

Yeah most likely. He was not in shape when Tommy chinned him, but style wise, the Hitman was all wrong for Stone Hands.

 

Yeah basically Duran was not in shape for the 2nd fight, Leonard was and what happened happened. SRL and his camp knew Duran would party and bloat up, that is why thr rematch took place so soon. Smart move.

Duran when trained was a destructive force, untrained he was just not normal like any fighter.

In boxing an average fit fighter will defeat a good undertrained fighter, simple. In the case of Duran being untrained for the no mas fight, there was nothing he could do against the elite skill of SRL.

 

Duran had mostly ALL the disadvantages of the Fab 4 and has the most significant and best win out of all 4 of them. Duran was oldest of them all and almost a lightweight from the era BEFORE. Of course Floyd had
a high connect percentage just look who he fought, no comparison to Duran's resume, he wouldn't have that high connection % if he fought SRL, Hearns, Benitez, Hagler, Barkley, or even Laing. Duran hated Leonard's guts, but by the rematch in the No Mas fight it was Duran who wanted to touch gloves, clear sign this wasn't the same Duran. Mayweather is great for this era, but he never fought at a disadvantage, never was a bold fighter.

 

Yeah very well said. Also of Mayweathers great wins: Castillo, Corrales, Hatton, De la Hoya, Cotto, Canelo etc.......Duran stops or ko's them all IMO.

Not saying Floyd would not beat many of the names on Duran's record, but I struggle to see who he ko's.

 

Duran aint KOing Canelo or Oscar at 154

 

This is why Floyd is superior. Complete and total dedication go his craft. Floyd would never show up to a fight out of shape. Even after a 200 million 300million payday against Pac, there he was right back in the gym sparring 30mins staright for Berto. Floyd's dedication, and mind it what ultimately puts him above Duran. Floyd wpuld never quit, just because a guy showed him a little movement.

 

Exactly the guy had an obsession with winning.

 

I agree with this post because it brings up a valid point that is so often lost when discussing Manny Pacquiao.

And that is Pacquiao is essentially nothing more than a little featherweight. It's impossible to properly appreciate Pacquiao without acknowledging that is/was essentially a blown up featherweight.

He was never supposed to go higher than 126 with ATG effectiveness. In fact he shouldn't have left 126 as early as he did. The reason he went to 130 so soon (just three 126 lb fights) was to chase greatness and fight Erik Morales.

Pacquiao could have almost spent his entire career at 135 pounds or less. He could have spent virtually his entire prime at 130 pounds or less. It wasn't until after the second Marquez fight that he was outgrowing 130 pounds, but intstead of settling at 135 for the remainder of his career he went after the big boys in Cotto, Bradley and Margarito.

 

Greater and better are not one and the same. I think prime PBF is a bit better than prime Pacquiao (I genuinely am not biased against Mayweather). But that is not the same as saying prime PBF beats prime Pacquiao either.
Mayweather beating Pacquiao (yes, I believe Mayweather beat Pacquiao) doesn't mean they are both as good as they were during primes. Thus, the winner of that fight doesn't get the credit for beating the 'prime' Mayweather or Pacquiao, this therefore has implications on their overall ATG ranking.
Pacquiao was further away from his prime than Mayweather by a long shot. Not being prime can effect different fighters in different ways, and in the case of Manny, he was no longer that gutsy fighter who would make things a war. That was psychologically taken from him when he suffered the most brutal knockout I've ever seen in boxing. It's a known phenomenon that a boxer never returns the same fighter if they're knocked out like that. So Manny lost the killer instinct back in 2010-2011, and all the smallest remains were truly gone after KTFO6.
It's not just that, but aggressive fighters don't last in the sport as long. To make it worse, fighters who have been in so many wars don't last as long. To make it yet worse still, fighters who infuse attributes like speed and athleticism are effected by not being prime, more than the cerebral fighters and their styles i.e Rigo, Mayweather, Pep, Hopkins. Understand that it negatively effects a fighter by an increasingly larger gradient.

A key point to also add to this is that when Pacquiao was going downhill since 2011, and especially after KTFO6, he had to turn to pure boxing more because he didn't have the same athletic threats that would have made him dangerous vs Mayweather, and he was a changed boxer from KTFO6. He lost the very thing that made him such a perceived threat in the first place vs Mayweather.

If you take a step back and think about the weights, I would have conventionally expected Pacquiao to get brutally knocked out against Mayweather. This is what Mayweather, beyond the hype, should have been doing. But the fact Pacquiao kept it competitive and has become a Great at welterweight is testament to how great Pacquiao is - he was ultimately meant to be KTFO and retired by 130lbs.

On a visible eye test, Pacquiao is the much faded fighter. Mayweather was using his rotator cuff injured shoulder an awful lot in his first fight with Castillo. Pacquiao was denied a pain killer for the surgery-level injured rotator cuff. In the meantime, Mayweather was in the opinion of most, using IV to mask PED use.
So through all of this, Mayweather gets credit for beating Pacquiao, BUT he only gets credit for beating the 5 years past prime (on a level far beyond Mayweather being past prime), surgery-level injured, mentally shot, small aggressive old (ring age) fighter who had no business being at welterweight in the first place.

Btw, I'm actually a massive fan of Mayweather, and that is very apparent from the old ESB days. I just like entertaining all arguments without bias, and I'm good at separating myself from bias.

....
But then again, I recognise I'm talking to someone who doesn't think Duran is Top 10/Top 15 all time and that his resume leading to Leonard wasn't anything special.