Why do people find Carlos Monzon unimpressive on film?

Blofeld · Jul 21, 2023

AntonioMartin1 said: ↑

Cause frankly, he was boring.

One of the very best, but boring.
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I respect your opinion from other posts and I have only watched a few of his fights but I found the two Valdez fights pretty exciting! However I can't speak for his other fights yet.

Blofeld · Jul 21, 2023

Flo_Raiden said: ↑

My guess is that Monzon didn't possess the flashy speed nor crushing power that made other fighters stand out. He also wasn't overly exciting in a slam bang type of way, he was always methodical and analyzing while slowly breaking down fighters. I think because of the fact that he was almost always in control and dominant in his fights while not possessing any speed, flashy movement, or crushing power that can lead to some people being turned off by him.

The thing with Monzon was that he wasn't fluid in his style, wasn't overly aggressive but he also wasn't defensive minded either, and he didn't look for the KO. He was subtle but very effective at what he did. When he did let his hands go and be more aggressive he can be ruthless but that was only when he needed to be.

I honestly think it just comes down to what people want to see and what type of fighter they consider as aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
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Nice post!

Blofeld · Jul 21, 2023

Richard M Murrieta said: ↑

Carlos Monzon was not a flashy Muhammad Ali wanna be, he took his trade serious in the ring. Sure he smoked a pack of cigarettes a day during training, he stayed out at all hours with really attractive women, but it worked for him, not others. He declined to learn the English language, he fought mostly in Italy or France, Big Money at that time, less taxes like here in the states. He did not call out his opponents, that kind of stuff belongs in WWE. His lifelong trainer Amilcar Brusa used to scout his future opponents, both of them usually came up with the right strategy. His manager Tito Lectoure always put aside all or some of Monzon's earnings so that he would never be hard up for a big money fight. Carlos had a long left jab, his reach was 76 inches, he usually stalked his opponents, that appeared very intimidating, he had a good chin, he counterpunched his opponents well, knew how to manhandle them in the clinches. Many refused to spar with him because he hit too hard. His right hand was paralyzing. He had the classic upright style, he sometimes used his big shoulders to block a punch. A very confident fighter who believed he couldn't lose. Monzon maybe looked slow on film but he was very effective, a consistent winner, if he had an opponent hurt, he never left his foot off of the gas pedal. Sure he was flatfooted but he could box as in the title defense against Bennie Briscoe on Nov 11 1972, he countered well, used his long left jab, connected on Bennie to score a unanimous decision win and retain his title. Monzon retired as champion after 14 title defenses, some of the past greats could not.
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Thanks, your posts about Monzon are always excellent.

Richard M Murrieta · Jul 21, 2023

Blofeld said: ↑

Thanks, your posts about Monzon are always excellent.
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You are sure welcome.

mcvey · Jul 21, 2023

IntentionalButt said: ↑

I'd say unaesthetic, not unimpressive.
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Excellent interpetation!

mcvey · Jul 21, 2023

McGrain said: ↑

I've written several detailed Monzon posts on the forum the past few weeks, and I won't take the time to write another one here, so the short answer:

People who find Monzon unimpressive on film don't know about boxing.
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Not particularly "fan friendly," but deadly effective!

mcvey · Jul 21, 2023

Richard M Murrieta said: ↑

I do, Monzon was my favorite World Middleweight Champion, I even ran into him at a boxing match.
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He seconded Carlos Herrera against Maurice Hope, in London, that's as near as I ever got to him.

Richard M Murrieta · Jul 21, 2023

mcvey said: ↑

He seconded Carlos Herrera against Maurice Hope, in London, that's as near as I ever got to him.
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Yeah, Like I said following Sugar Ray Leonard's kayo of Carlos Monzon's countryman Daniel Gonzalez, on March 24 1979, I was exiting the restroom to get a beer when we nodded up to each other as he was passing by me. I heard Carlos Herrera was a good fighter.

Pugguy · Jul 21, 2023

Blofeld said: ↑

Thanks very much and for your interesting thoughts. Valdez was also looking pretty battered after the first fight as well!
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Very true Blo, poor Rocky didn’t look too healthy after the first either.

AntonioMartin1 · Jul 21, 2023

Blofeld said: ↑

I respect your opinion from other posts and I have only watched a few of his fights but I found the two Valdez fights pretty exciting! However I can't speak for his other fights yet.
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I think I saw one of the Valdes fights but will have to rewatch it for sure lol..I heard good things about those fights.

he grant · Jul 21, 2023

There is not doubt that Monzon was a great fighter but how great I am not sure ... Im not blown away by his opposition but what dies impress me the most about him was his tremendous self confidence .. the man truly believed that he was the greatest thing ever at middleweight ...his first fight against Nino was terrific , he was simply an indestructible methodical beast ...

Pugguy · Jul 21, 2023

Levook said: ↑

As an aside, film quality is an issue I find fascinating. This is in regard mainly to what we have from say, 80-100 years ago or so. I think the old timers are at a real disadvantage when H2H matches are discussed because of the quality, but it may apply here.

Many of the Monzon fights I've seen were pretty shoddy and I think quality has now improved to the point where even 70's guys can't be fully appreciated like modern fighters. Monzon's intensity was, I believe, one of his strongest attributes and these kinds of things often don't come across well when watching. I believe this intensity won him many fights, or at least was a major component in them, and is a big part of why watching him should be enthralling.

Subtly and nuance, facial expression, verbal exchanges between fighters, being able to hear the punches land (very important) - these things, and many others are, I believe, major connecting points with this generation of fans. They feel closer to their favorite fighters, who are more real to them, more alive. I mean come on, how could someone watching Prince Naz flying on a magic carpet to the ring, not love that? Or stare in awe and disbelief as cannibalism proved to be alive & well in the year 1997, all in hi def on giant flat screens. Yum.
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…Or “Vlad Call Me Tyson The Impaler” Fury licking the blood from Wilder’s shoulder. Another “birdy num num” moment in boxing. Lol.

Pugguy · Jul 21, 2023

AntonioMartin1 said: ↑

I think I saw one of the Valdes fights but will have to rewatch it for sure lol..I heard good things about those fights.
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Antonio - Here’s some very crisp, clean HL footage of Monzon vs Valdez 2.

Quality wise, best I’ve seen for this fight. This isn’t prime Monzon (his last fight of course) but he’s still not shabby at all. Also, what a chin!

Valdez’s right hand - perfectly on the button - yielded a KD yes, but barely.

We know Valdez could punch, not least for the fact of his stunning KO of the extremely tough and durable Bad Boy Bennie Briscoe.

In fact, to land such a punch so early might be viewed as quite the success.

However, to then see how well Monzon took it, recovering so quickly - well, that would’ve been somewhat disheartening for Valdez imo - but he continued fighting the good fight til final bell.

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AntonioMartin1 · Jul 22, 2023

Pugguy said: ↑

Antonio - Here’s some very crisp, clean HL footage of Monzon vs Valdez 2.

Quality wise, best I’ve seen for this fight. This isn’t prime Monzon (his last fight of course) but he’s still not shabby at all. Also, what a chin!

Valdez’s right hand - perfectly on the button - yielded a KD yes, but barely.

We know Valdez could punch, not least for the fact of his stunning KO of the extremely tough and durable Bad Boy Bennie Briscoe.

In fact, to land such a punch so early might be viewed as quite the success.

However, to then see how well Monzon took it, recovering so quickly - well, that would’ve been somewhat disheartening for Valdez imo - but he continued fighting the good fight til final bell.

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Monzon is clearly top 20 all time. His ranking was hurt undoubtedly, by his outside the ring shenanigans.

Pugguy · Jul 22, 2023

AntonioMartin1 said: ↑

Monzon is clearly top 20 all time. His ranking was hurt undoubtedly, by his outside the ring shenanigans.
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Under separate cover, people are free to judge him however they like re outside ring stuff but it shouldn’t come into play at all as far as his ranking goes.

Could you imagine the personal lives of all fighter being factored into their rankings - that’d be crazy.

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