Why do people here think boxers can beat mma fighters in mma rules or street fight?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by outtieDrake, Mar 13, 2023.



  1. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sylvia being 300 lbs doesn't mean he couldn't take a punch as well or better than he did in his UFC fights where they cut to make 265 and Mercer wasn't a big puncher by boxing standards. Mercer's KO power can't remotely be compared to Wilder's, let alone the 48 year old Mercer who was 13 years past his best.

    How many top boxers have gone into MMA in their primes? And how many of them were KO artists? Someone like Shields has no KD/KO power worth talking about, of course she got ragdolled by an average female MMA fighter (although she beat one journeywoman on her debut). Fury isn't the best candidate for transitioning to MMA because he's not an elite one-punch KO artist.

    "even pure world class wrestlers and bjj champions have to cross train to compete in mma"

    If an Olympic gold medallist HW wrestler had a solid chin I'd favour him to beat many UFC heavyweights. Perhaps I'm crazy, along with the bookmakers:

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    "No boxer could win an mma match on any level in the ufc"

    Are you saying that Wilder (on one training camp) would have "zero or near-zero chance" against some short, obese, weak-chinned UFC HW?
     
  2. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Tim Sylvia Competed in the weakest era of ufc. he was long gone before Lesnar, Cain, Carwin, Overeem, and JDS. He would have been murked by all those guys. Had fedor not subbed him, he was on his way to being put out. As for Mercer he had heavy hands in boxing, who do you expect him to knock out? Lennox Lewis? Mercer had power, he just fought in a very competitive hw division.

    The olympic wrestler would make it to top 20 maybe before he eats a knee to the sternum kind of like when lesnar fought Overeem.

    Wilder would get submitted even by the purists of strikers, all ufc fighters drill grappling.
     
  3. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If you think Wilder would have "near zero chance" in 4oz gloves with no knockdown rule against a relatively short, obese, plodding, crude, weak-chinned, quit-prone UFC heavyweight then I think you're delusional. Say Wilder went in with the 11th ranked contender Derrick Lewis right now or indeed before Lewis's three fight skid when he was the ranked 3rd contender: there's every chance Wilder puts Lewis down with a bomb before the plodding Lewis gets a takedown.

    "The olympic wrestler would make it to top 20 maybe..."

    Fine, you believe that. But don't pretend that this is an enlightened opinion shared by virtually everyone who knows a lot about the sport.

    "who do you expect him to knock out? Lennox Lewis?"

    Why not? You didn't have to be an elite puncher to KO Lewis with one shot.

    When Mercer fought Lewis he was in the midst of a 6 fight streak with 0 KD's and 0 KO's. Mercer was an aggressive fighter but struggled to put guys away, hence 13 distance fights (Lane, J. Jones, Ocasio, Odum, Cooper, Holmes, Ferguson x2, Wills, Wilson, Holyfield, Lewis, Witherspoon) in his first 29 or a 55% KO ratio, with his best stoppage wins by far being a gassing Morrison and Damiani. And that was Mercer at his best, not the 13 years past prime version. Mercer had just one stoppage win (against a total nonentity) in his final five boxing matches and the level of opposition wasn't high. But he still iced the previously un-KO'd 33 year old former 2x UFC HW champ Sylvia in 9 seconds with one shot. And there's a huge gulf in power (not to mention other offensive attributes) between prime Mercer and the best heavyweight one-punch KO artists, let alone 48 year old Mercer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
  4. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    i already explained to you the lack of heavy hitters by that time, now you’re running in circles. Strange how you harp on a super hw fight where it was intended to be a boxing match between two washed up fighters. That scenario played out largely due to it being originally a boxing match.

    Wilder would get tapped. Lewis knows how to kick and takedown. One Wilder is grounded Lewis would just toy with him while Wilder threw punches from the bottom mount position, no hip escape or sweeps, that is most boxers instinct, to punch rather than grapple from the bottom.
     
  5. cuchulain

    cuchulain VIP Member Full Member

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    A very fanciful scenario, Outtie.

    A sixteen year-old high school kid from the wrestling team doing all that to Canelo.

    After football, the second most popular sport in Mexico is wrestling, so I imagine Canelo has wrestled some when he was a kid, and maybe even later.

    And if we're talking street fight (which is not the same thing as MMA) it wouldn't make much difference.

    Forget takedowns and think Knockdowns.

    The sixteen year old would probably be on the ground within one or two seconds if Canelo were to start the fight.
     
  6. 3rdegree

    3rdegree Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    MMA fighters have major advantages over boxers when it comes to an open fight with no rules, due to their wider range of skills in fighting. Another fact of street fighting there is no guaranteed cage wall in place to help fighters prevent takedowns and to help fighters to get back to their feet.

    Check out these two examples of much smaller MMA fighters defeating future and former heavyweight champions in the very first round:

    Francis Botha vs Yoshihiro Takayama

    [media]TOSEw5C_nVM[/media]

    Lucas Browne vs Daniel Cormier


    [media]SywJKoHeHrg[/media]
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
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  7. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wilder has the speed, power and technique to land a punch on weak chinned, weak mentality, crude plodder Lewis before he gets takedown. Lewis could also get a takedown before Wilder lands a punch. But the idea that Wilder would have "next to no chance" or whatever is absurd. He'd only need a half-shot to connect to win the fight with some followup. On a lot of nights he would get it. Likewise, on many nights (probably most) the gold medallist wrestler would take Lewis down and sub him.

    We recently saw an example of a specialist beating a UFC champion and P4P No.2. The kickboxer had a good stylistic matchup and won by KO, despite a massive gap in MMA experience.
     
  8. MAD_PIGE0N

    MAD_PIGE0N ... banned Full Member

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    Lucas Browne is 8:2, so him as example is pretty good for what some try to prove wrong.
     
  9. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    he's not a boxer who turned to mma, he is an mma fighter who decided to become a boxer and beat James Toney. Which is actually a credit to mma.

    Another thing not mentioned is Conor going 10 rounds with Floyd, where was the instant knockout? Silva beating Chavez, Vitor beating Holyfield?

    The theme of this thread is ' boxers need to cross train like everyone else.' You guys are arguing for something that has already been disproven decades ago.
    Alex Pareira has trained bjj and mma with Glover Teixera , he has a bjj brown belt, although maybe not authentic, he has solid grappling defense.
     
  10. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    a high school wrestler who has at least two years of wrestling practice and a few tournaments will have enough repetition on the ground to control Canelo's body weight and prevent him from getting up. Most wrestlers today also know bjj, they practice with their friends rear naked chokes and arm locks. It's almost certain every wrestler in high school watches and follows the ufc, it's not hard for them to submit Canelo.

    I'd put money on a white belt with 6 months of training to beat Canelo. As far as i know Canelo has never wrestled or else he would have brought it up in interviews when asked about mma.
     
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  11. MAD_PIGE0N

    MAD_PIGE0N ... banned Full Member

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    Lucas is an MMA competitor, but he's a boxer, he barley has any other skill, but I still miss your "10 examples".

    You expect Floyd to knockout Connor? Actually, you compare MMA fighter against a boxer in a boxing contest, not a boxer and MMA fighter in a MMA fight, which is the topic you created, haha!

    One example on my side: how did Ali vs. Inoki ended?
     
  12. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lucas did mma first, got his start there, check the dates, he ended his mma career when he had only two boxing matches.

    read the first post, you know how to use google right?youtube? i presented more than 10 examples already, all you got is 1.

    I don't have to embed for you to see it, look at the poster above you.

    The point I'm making is that an mma fighter can last longer in boxing than the other way around. Wilder could not go 5 rounds let alone 2 with any world mma champion. Truth is boxers lose faster on average when dealing with mma fighters.
     
  13. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Barring a brief period of dabbling again no-names back in 2015-2016, Pereira's MMA experience pre-Adesanya consisted of four fights over 2 years, only two in the UFC. They matched him very carefully (no good wrestlers) to increase his likelihood of a title shot. And with that minimal level of MMA experience he defeated the UFC's P4P No.2 (commonly regarded as the 2nd best middleweight in MMA history), who had over 7 years and twenty-two fights of consistent MMA experience, including fourteen UFC fights and eight world title fights.
     
  14. outtieDrake

    outtieDrake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    btw Inoki messed up Ali's legs from the ground with very limited rules, you must be trolling at this point.
     
  15. MAD_PIGE0N

    MAD_PIGE0N ... banned Full Member

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    One month after having his first MMA fight he got his first boxing one. So yes - I can conclude that your practice on Google *ucks. Lucas was also a bouncer before ever deciding to compete professionally. And no - you've not presented "more than 10 examples', check the previous page and my last post - you escaped like a scared chicken. And since there're examples of boxers beating MMA fighters it doesn't matter how desperately you can try to prove it never happens - it happened and it will happen, so keep being pathetic the way you argue, as that's what you do - you don't want a discussion.

    The point you start making is different than the topic, but changing it in time, as the facts goes against you is normal.

    "Boxers lose faster on average when dealing with MMA fighters" - ok, Mr. Statistics, pfff...


    Yet he didn't win despite having a boxer with a crippled leg. So you lose on argument here, haha, that's why it's easier to consider the other trolling, but this was MMA fight and as such, there'll always be some rules - you think UFC doesn't give advantage to grapplers?