why do people put duran ahead of pac on atg list???

Hagler was 5-9 3/4 as done once in Brockton by a newspaper since people wanted his exact height and thought he was taller than 5-9 1/2-so really he was about that. People thought he might be 5-10 or 11, even though some did say he was 5-9 1/2-yet it seemed unlikely. So in all honesty he was about what he said. They had the same questions about Tyson who was 5-11. Yet by the logic some use on here, Hearns is the bigger man because he is taller than Tyson. Hagler was the bigger man against Hearns-look at the fight. He was stronger and more natural at the weight. Height does not make a man a natural weight. How tall was Dwight Qawi? 5-6 or 5-7? -he was a natural light heavy who later fought at heavyweight. I know what your point is about height and who is bigger. Hearns used to list at 6-2, when he was 6-1 1/2 officially and 78 inch reach. Hagler's reach is 75, which is a reach of a man more like 6ft tall or even 6-1. Milton McCrory who was 6-1 like Hearns, had I think a 73 or 74 inch reach. Marvin's was more. As for your question, yeah I think beating bigger men proves something, yet Duran did not beat anyone bigger who was ATG so why would that apply? Duran beat Ray by decision, yet are you telling me going from 135 to 147 with a man with a big enough frame like Duran is a lot? That was insignificant if you factor in the intangible of experience and tuneups etc. The man went up to 172 pounds or so in the late 1990's, and Ray could barely weigh in mid 160's.

 

The fighter Ray became after Duran was much better than the man who fought him the first fight. Ray was a man who found out about the whole game. Ray for Benitez (before Duran) won a fight so brutal he couldn't go to the postfight party. He was that sore. Benitez was so quick that Ray had to fight almost an inside fight just to get to him. With Duran Ray was quicker, as Benitez as quicker than Duran also if you see his fight with Duran in 1982. As for the Benitez fight, I am sure Duran saw that fight and knew he could win an inside fight but not an outside fight- he insulted Ray's wife and Ray fought on the inside admitting in interviews "I wanted to beat that man at his own game. He insulted my wife. And I put up a good fight. He didn't stop me-I thought I could beat him that way " This shows Ray's confidence to fight Duran that way. After that fight Ray said, fighting Duran's fight, Duran still couldnt stop him, and he thought it was significant. He said if he boxes and uses his speed, Duran cannot win. What happened? That is not making this up. Ray has spoken of this many times in different interviews. And then look at the rematch. When Ray starts to land punches Duran quits. Not when Ray is moving, it is when Ray is landing. And then Duran losing to Benitez is a similar way without much lateral from Wilfred shows how if someone uses speed, Duran will lose. The Ray of 1981 outboxes Duran easily as he did 2 times in 1980, and then in 1989. He would have beaten Benitez with more of an outside fight later, although Wilfred was almost a mirror image of Ray and his speed made it tough, but I think Ray would have won a UD in a rematch. And he beat Hearns in 1981. Duran did not beat the experienced Ray Leonard. I am not sure why you guys say Ray is prime at that time. Was Meldrick Taylor prime when he won the title from McGirt? Pernell Whitaker was about the same when he lost to Ramirez as Ray was when he fought Duran. He lost, even though it was a bad decision, it was close enough. But he fought so much better in the rematch when he had that experience behind him of knowing what to do. Ray was so much better after losing to Duran. Duran did not beat the real prime Ray Leonard. No way. And you guys know it deep down. You have to. Even to help Duran's legacy are you willing to say Ray was prime when he first fought Duran?

 

legit Hall of Fame fighters? Duran beat Buchanan,Dejesus,Leonard(yet he lost the next two and I say that because it matters). Who else? What good near prime Hall of Famers did he beat? Are you insinuating Barkley and Moore were HOF? Look if anyone has a chance at Hall of Fame Barkley and Moore it is Barkley. As a matter of fact, some might argue Duran and Barkley both only beat one ATG. As for Barkley and the HOF, he might make it in. So that will be 4 HOF for Duran if he does, but still really only beat one ATG-Ray-and even that has questions. Matters where you put Dejesus at ATG. Where is Cervantes at ATG ranking -who beat Dejesus?

 

Duran had his first fight as a bantamweight and went all the way up to super-middle! he dominated the lightweight division and is many peoples opinion to be the GOAT in that division. He beat a prime Sugar Ray Leonard and fought against some really great fighters Sugar Ray Leonard x3, Hagler, Hearns, Benitez, Barkley, Esteban De Jesus, Laing & Camacho.

 

You're very much like Asero. You don't factor in title defenses, divisions spanned, titles won, or even technical ability and skill set - you just look at who a fighter beat, and who he lost to, and seem to penalize fighters for defeats heavily. I blame Floyd Mayweather Jr, who's always mouthing off about this one fighter can't be great because he lost to so and so. Doesn't tell the whole story, especially not for a fighter like Duran, who had over a 100 professional bouts.

 

You forgot Bunchanan, who would probably be champion at Lightweight today.

 

Dude, what the hell did I just say? Forget about the rematches, the first fight is a great victory, irrespective of what would later transpire in return bouts.

Duran was beaten by a lot of things, not just speed. Both Benitez and Hearns, Hearns especially, looked a lot bigger in the ring next to Duran. Of course, why wouldn't they? They are both naturally bigger guys, establishing themselves as world class fighters at 147lbs as opposed to 135lbs. Duran was beaten by speed, size, power, and perhaps his lack of preparation was a factor in the Benitez fight also. He looked really slow and one paced to me, like he didn't really want to be there.

You seem to have total disregard for Duran being naturally smaller than all of the fab four and in a physical sport like Boxing, the little things matter.

It's not an excuse, it's a god damn fact. They all enjoyed size advantages, at least Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler did. Duran, in addition to coming up from 135lbs, had significantly more mileage on him anyway, he had fought over 70 fights before he even got in the ring with Ray for the first time, who hadn't long come out of the Olympics. All of these things factor in to judging Duran, but you don't seem to be giving him much if any credit at all for his own victories.

His reign at Lightweight gets him a place on a top 50 ATG list in my estimation. He showed such domination there, he beat every opponent he faced, avenging the loss to De Jesus emphatically. But the main reason he's rated so highly is because of his skill set, which he demonstrated so beautifully in outclassing Carlos Palamino, and then emphatically beating Sugar Ray Leonard at his absolute peak by bullying him around the ring. His legacy was secure, but he'd challenge himself further, winning titles in 4 different weight classes, almost killing Davey Moore who was undefeated and a world champion. Not to mention out-boxing Barkley. who was 6'1 and WBC Middleweight champion of the world.

The longevity Duran showed in his career is pretty much unheard of during his era, his resume is fantastic, and he showed great skills in accomplishing his feats.

 

I wasent making excuses, but they certainly didnt help him. As for his loses to Hearns Hagler and Leonard, they weer deserved. I was meaning losses to people such as Kirkland Laing etc, good fighters but not on Durans level, they were down to problems outside of the ring. Again, not me making excuses, just explaining. Just like i say DLH was weight drained for his fight with Pac, its true, but i accept that Pac thouroughly outclased him on the night.

 

wow this thread is still ongoing?

cmon guys Duran is still ahead of Pac on P4P lists. You need not look at the ATGs or rare breeds who beat him, look at his accomplishment. LW division was stacked during Durans time, and guys like Esteban de Jesus and Buchanan are throwback fighters. He also beat prime SRL, who I conside as the biggest win in boxing history. Compared to today, fab 4s time was the Golden Age of Boxing, and there were many throwback fighters in that era.

It doesnt mean Pac isnt great when you put him below Duran. I rest my case.

 

:-( Just because YOU don't know anything about Duran's comp at lightweight doesn't mean he didn't fight some damn strong competition there. I don't even have the heart to further explain why your post is one of the worst I've ever read, it's too boring. I genuinely believe you should take up another sport if these are your true views, as you don't understand boxing at all.

 

All of Pac's resume loses to Duran.

All of Pac best wins lose to Duran.

Imagine what duran would have done to the shot Oscar that Pac fought.

What would Duran do to Cotto?

Diaz gets killed by Duran.

Barrera and Morales both get stopped by Duran.

Leonard kills Pac, Duran beats Leonard first go. Some people could bring bring up fight 2, but fight 3? Duran was shot in fight 3, worse shape than his fight with Barkley which contributed to his decline.

 

Did you even bother to look at anything about Duran or what?