Why do people say that Hagler was cheated when he fought Leonard?

Perfect storm? Perfect description though Marv himself wilfully contributed to the disastrous weather system.

Catalysts:-

Pre fight consent to shorter duration, bigger gloves and bigger ring - more $$$ being the incentive. Who cares, rusty little Ray will be easy pickings.

As a “freebie”, Marv threw in the inexplicable election to start as a righty and to try and outbox Ray. There goes 3 rds of an already truncated fight. Again, still time left but damn, Ray wasn’t supposed to be this good but surely he’ll gas out anyway.

Ray enters fight with a greater pre existing fan base, perhaps garnering more fans due to being underdog. As such, perceptions and scoring may be skewed, incorrectly measuring Ray’s performance in relative terms instead of absolute.

Last and by NO means least. Ray’s amazing recapture of himself after an impossible hiatus and incredible adjustment to the higher weight atop that.

A fight in very fine balance, with any one of the above components removed and Marv more likely secures a clear victory.

I had Ray by a very close nod but it was easier to score Ray’s more flashy deliveries than Marv’s less breath taking but equally valid substance..

Ray’s demonstrated power and the fact that Marv felt it is also underrated. Marv was not walking through Leonard’s punches which might’ve been the case if they didn’t actually concern Hags.

As to scoring - is there perhaps a problem in terms of lack of clearly defined criteria/due interpretation as opposed to natural disagreement among pundits when a close fight is involved.?

Effective aggression, defence and ring generalship could lend to the impression of complexity in terms of criteria - but you don’t score those features in their own right. They’re a means to a more simple end and focus for judges.

Basically, with some under scored weighting, who landed the superior mix of clean punch volume and identified power shots with the greatest effect.

Effect being. - one might land a seemingly harder shot on their opponent BUT to no apparent effect. Conversely, a softer punch from the other end might yield a wobble. So demonstrated resilience or lack thereof is a factor.

The extreme amplifications of the concept of scoring “effect” being 1) the pronounced scoring for a KD (effect) notwithstanding the perceived quality of the punch and 2) an outright KO for an immediate win, again without necessary deference to the quality of the punch except if it smells of FAKE.

Anyway…..

 

Yes he could. And he'd end up like Mugabi.
Broken.
The Matador doesn't go into the Bull fight trying to gore the bull.

 

He had a real roll your sleeves up and work attitude. He wasn’t flashy, knew his place in the world and was happy he just did the best he could without making a fool out of himself.

 

I remember, it seemed like more of a circus act, Leonard was out of the ring for 3 years like you mentioned, and was a serious underdog. The fight i really wanted to see was Hagler vs Hearns 2, but Sugar Ray got the Hagler fight instead, it seemed SRL liked to steal Hearns thunder. SRL had the fans eating out of hands, every combo hit or miss got a roar from the crowd. Leonard performed better than expected and Hagler performed worse than expected.

 

Great Post!

 

Mugabi was really a light middle.Fullmer was one of the strongest middleweights ever.

 

So was Sibson, Roldan, and Hamsho....
How'd it work out for them?
Certain styles Hagler feasted on.
Zale, Graziano, Lomatta, Fullmer,
Cerdan, Tiger, Basilio, Walker, Greb, etc would
Allow Hagler to do what he was
absolutely best at.
That's countering strong, powerful
men that depended on aggression
and great firepower.
Those styles allowed Hagler to
use his entire offensive repertoire .
Hagler would have a much harder
time against a fighter like Michael
Nunn or Jones Jr. Than any of those
ATG's.
Styles make fights.

 

It was amazing what Hagler did to Hamsho. Hamsho was a beast, he destroyed a young Bobby Cyze, as we know was a very good fighter. Hagler also overcame great boxer puncher like Hearns. I think a prime Hagler would have found both Roy's And Nunns chin. Remember, Hagler had the " switch from orthodox to lefty factor" which gave everybody trouble, along with those heavy hands and iron chin.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't believe Nunn or Jones
beat Hagler, esp in a 3 fight series.
But in my opinion it would be more
of a difficult task .
Styles make fights.

 

Especially towards the end of his career, i get it. Both Nunn and Jones looked untouchable for a while, so its easier to say in retrospect after seeing both of them lose.

 

That sounds more like it, i do not like to make excuses for fighters, for me I respect the scores issued by the boxing officials. Why did'nt Hagler just knock out Leonard? Then we would not then have these type of discussions. Leonard had been away for three years, Hagler should have demolished him.

 

I'm not suggesting Fullmer beats Hagler ,I'm saying there is no valid comparison between Mugabi and Fulllmer. Styles make fights? Well what do you know! I've spent over 60 years watching them being unaware of that! Thanks for that snippet!

 

Sarcasm is completely unnecessary.
As far as I know you may have started
watching boxing yesterday.

 

Cheers Quinton. You are now officially one of my favorite posters!