Why do people say Tyson was visibly out of shape against Douglas?

Because they are blind nuthuggers who can't accept their hero wasn't the unstoppable monster they thought he was and that he was beaten by the better fighter on the night...

 

He wasn't visibly out of shape like, say Page or Tubbs or Witherspoon.

But, he clearly wasn't fighting as well as a few years earlier, especially defensively.

 

He looked like sh*t against Bruno. What was his weight then?

 

pretty sure a lot of that is revisionist history which get's perpetuated every time a new documentary on tyson's life comes out and it's thrown out there. Here is an excerpt from a piece several years ago about this:

At the time, some experts thought Tyson had trained not too lightly but too hard. Watch the fight. Tyson's muscles are bulging, and there is no fat anywhere on his frame. He weighed in at 220½ pounds -- just 1¼ pounds more than he had weighed seven months earlier when he knocked out Carl Williams in 93 seconds and only two pounds more than he had weighed 20 months earlier when he had knocked out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds. If Tyson had been in poor shape, he could not have lasted 10 rounds against an opponent who was pummeling him. Mentally, there's no question Tyson was unprepared; it was inconceivable to him that Douglas might win. But that's a different issue, and a champion must always expect an inspired challenger.

 

He didn't look physically out of shape; just lethargic and disinterested, with no combination punching and minimal head movement.

 

Agree with Kevin here.

I think physically he was ok. I mean, he was a natural mesomorph with a fast metabolism so he could drop weight quickly and come into the ring looking in good shape.

I don't know if that translates into good fighting shape but for the sake of the argument let's assume he was. Mentally he was just nowhere to be found though. He was just not in the least bit prepared for a hard fight and he looked sloppy and as said, disinterested.

 

He was somewhat in shape which means little if you are not mentally there.To take so many headshots from a huge 230 pounder one would have to be in relative good shape,had Douglas hit harder it would have ended sooner,which also has little do with Tyson at his best or even 80%...Tyson wins the rematch and the rematch and another rematch after that!:yep

 

I understand he dropped weight quickly before the fight. He was young & could look good, but if so he also lost energy. One can be enervated for a varirty pf kist physical reasons even if looking strong.

 

As if weight has anything to do with what kind of condition you are in for a fight.

 

Hmmmm, one of Tyson's best weights and he looked horrible. This was around the time Tyson ballooned up between fights and he made a habit of doing this until his time in prison.

 

because a fighter can make weight and be in terrible shape

 

Long post...

many people say Tyson was at his best in that fight, which I think is ridiculous, and wishful thinking for those that want to believe he wasn't anything special. You have to take a bit of middle ground with this. There is simply no way he was at his best in the Douglas fight, he was physically and mentally under prepared in some way. This happens to many great fighters but Tyson gets serious stick for it in the Douglas upset and is called a bully, exposed etc. At the end of the day this would always be a tough match up with Buster in "that" shape, I don't dispute that, I just don't believe Tyson was prepared for this kind of battle and the evidence is on tape if you look objectively.

I watched the fight recently, what I notice more than anything is that Tyson's punches have no sting. He landed a few combinations (and it was just a few) that would usually hurt his opponent but in this fight they landed with no conviction. The same goes for a few right hands, they just slide off Douglas with barely any power, I did wonder how those punches would have effected Buster if they landed with their usual intent. Mike had to really wind up for that uppercut in the 8th that put Buster down, that was about the only punch with any real power and it seemed to sap any energy he had left.

Another obvious fact is Mike's attitude very early in the fight. From round one he looked disinterested and discouraged. In the corner he just looked like he didn't want to be there and had absolutely no respect for the advice he was given. Sometimes a trainer doesn't mean much to a fighter, in Tyson's case he was effected dramatically overall. If he ever needed Rooney it was then, Mike was like any other boxer, he needed corner advice he could respect, he just winged it on his own this fight. I won't even go into the other corner incompetence stories. The whole camp was really a joke compared to his previous preparations under Rooney.

Also notice Tyson's reaction to getting hurt or out punched in that fight. Against Douglas, Mike seemed cover up when hurt, maybe throwing a wild hook looking disorganised. A few fights later with Ruddock you could see Tyson's mentality was different, he was hurt a few times but always came back with effective punches. That's down to fatigue, Mike had no energy to return fire against Douglas, he was in better shape against Ruddock so had the ability to fire back against the arguably harder puncher. ok Ruddock wasn't Douglas but the point is mental attitude.

Another thing I noticed in the fight is that although Tyson gets a lot of stick for being a bully and weak minded he really did what he could to stay in this fight. That desperate uppercut was planned, he was still trying to get Douglas out of there later in the fight, though many accuse him of giving up. So I take a bit of middle ground there as well, ok he didn't have Ali's refusal to lose or will but he was trying until the end, he showed a lot of courage and heart to take a beating like that. If nothing else it showed that to beat Tyson you had to throw everything and the world to get him out of there.

Its a fascinating fight because there are so many ways of looking at it, was Douglas really that good for one night? or was it that he just didn't face much resistance from Mike? what if Mike landed some devastating combos and had more energy? would Douglas always be too much technically? Was Douglas that much better than Tucker, who Tyson outpointed with relative ease? I change my mind from time to time but one thing I do know is that Douglas did not meet Tyson at his best, which is obviously Mike's fault but it is what it is.

 

Excuses the Buster that showed up that night beats any version of Tyson and a LOT of other champions on that night