Why do people say Tyson was visibly out of shape against Douglas?

foxy, if you don't consider yourself racist to a degree you can disagree with me and explain to me why,,,

that's not what you did foxy,,,,,

you took such offense to that statement you proclaimed me YOUR RACIST under your terms and then claimed that i had confessed to being a racist under your terms and went on about this for 2 weeks quoting me as a RACIST under your terms,,,, don't claim it SNOWBALLED from there, that's the type of MISDIRECTION that i have from the start claimed you as DISHONEST about after the fact foxy. Don't think that type of behavior goes un-noticed foxy. It adds up. You are playing people and you do it in a ongoing bullying fashion.

 

it's sad that you might refer to yourselves as men.

 

they need a reason for his loss to a average fighter who happened to stand up to a bully

 

Those poor old 6'5+ fighters, being bullied by a 5'10 midget.

 

So much wrong with this^^^.

I assume you're referring to "They" as Tyson fanboys who make excuses for their hero? Tyson looked less than stellar in Tokyo, on the way to the ring, during the introduction and the 10 rounds he actually fought.

If James "Buster" Douglas was an average fighter, than Oliver McCall must be below average and Lennox Lewis complete sh*t.

Douglas wan't the only fighter to stand up to Tyson. In reality all of Tyson's opponents did. I can name the ones who were frightened though, and on one hand: Ratliff, Spinks, Tillman, Stewart, Seldon. These guys looked terrified, I'll admit that.

 

I don't understand why people so often refer to Tyson as a bully???

not disagreeing with you, just saying, I don't understand where you are coming from. Mainly because my definition of a bully is a guy that is too cowardly to get in the ring and take full power shots to the head from another guy.

put it this way, are you one of those guys that are saying people like Smith, Tucker, Spinks etc etc were so afraid of Tyson they refused to stand up to him because they were too afraid of him?

My point is don't forget that if Smith or Tucker or a few others try to stand up MORE to Tyson its very possible Tyson would of laid them out flat on the canvas as he did the smaller Spinks who didn't have the size and power to tie Mike up.

Also my definition of a bully is a guy that cant take a punch and Mike could take a punch, wow could he take a good punch. To say otherwise is to really sell the guy short. If Tokyo proved one thing to me its how good Tysons jaw was as he was finally getting hammered long before he finally was counted out.

Then again if you mean the biting and arm bending I totally agree with you, lol , except that came later and you I thought were referring to him as a bully earlier?

 

These lying scum need an excuse to convince people that a man born in 1966 was past his prime in 1990.

 

The longer I ****yze boxing the closer I come to the realization that age doesn't determine prime. There are outliers in everything. Walcott and Liston are good examples.

 

Yep.

But some fans don't like that word bully. So we can insert other terms we have discussed with each other here----An "on top" fighter. Or, a frontrunner.

Those guys always look devastating. But only when they are on top as the frontrunner. The Nigel Benn type guys. Tyson.

The big flaw with that style is when it is a different fight and those "on top" results aren't there. That style turns them into mediocre and the drop margin of that style is as wide as it gets in boxing.

That's another reason that style usually loses by ko as well. They get taken out to the deep water & it just looks like a completely different fighter compared to that steamroller guy with the quickie ko's.

 

All that is a bit of a generalisation though, I think there is a bit of a grey area to it personally. Prime Tyson didn’t have it his way every second of every fight, there were times he appeared to be getting out boxed and took a few punches, against Ruddock he took some punishment but stayed determined. There were a few fighters that stood up to him but he was less easily discouraged in those years.

Douglas was always a tough fight but on that occasion its not difficult to see Tyson was out of shape imo. The front runner being stood up to wouldn’t have been so apparent that early in the fight, an in shape Tyson would have been much more spirited early even if he wilted later due to being a “bully”. In this instance from the very first 10 seconds it was clear Tyson wasn’t fighting in his usual manner.

You might say it was Douglas using his jab, but to me Tyson showed no determination at all from the get go, unusual for him? If there was ever a time he needed to be at his best it was against that Douglas, I’m not even sure he would ever beat him but I do know he wasn’t in shape that fight.

 

Tyson was young and fighting somewhat regularly, but he did drop a lot of weight leading up to this fight and was no longer preparing for fights in the same manner he had previously. It was like a kid going off to college, no longer did he have someone telling him he had to do anything. I dont think he was mentally or physically properly prepared and Aaron Snowell, although powerless was telling him he was heading for an a** whooping.

Very typical mistake, and what makes disciplined fighters like Mayweather special. Tyson was equally as talented but not closely disciplined.

 

Disagree.

First off, the barometer isn't that high. Mike was being asked to deal with the work ethic and conditioning of Buster Douglas. Nothing more. And everyone knew what Buster was bringing to the table.

No surprises and it was hardly a case of Tyson coming in like the 80's heavies and showing up way over weight like we saw with WBA & WBC title defenses like Witherspoon and Thomas. Mike was not walking in at 236 or something. That's way out of shape.

The "on top" fighters don't have a plan B. They do the same thing the same way but don't always get the same results. The problem is the fall off factor when they don't get the quickie stoppage. They become average. Not pretty good or good...just excellent to average.


They sure are exciting to watch. It's just what happens when things don't go according to the script.

 

Many, many times Tyson's fights didn't go according to the script, whatever that means. I'm guessing you mean a 1 or 2 round blowout? Again, many times where a Tyson blowout hadn't occurred Tyson used a different approach, whether you'd call it a Plan B or Plan C is really up to you.

Ribalta comes to mind. So does Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Holmes...these weren't 1 round blowouts mind you. What about the Tubbs fight where TNT was peppering Tyson with jabs and right crosses from the outside. The next round Tyson adapts, goes to "Plan B" if I may be so bold, concentrates on his inside attack and whacks Tony out of there.

There's an easy case for the "Plan B" than a certain "on top" fighter was looking for. :deal

 

the story i read was that he was shagging left right and centre right up to the fight. that has to take something out of you.
anyway, styles makes fights, and credit to douglas for having the style that would always have given tyson issues.

 

So did Ali for Frazier and just about any fight in the 70's. Sure that's true for many fighters and athletes in general that reach anything close to that s****om.