Why do people say Usyk is too small for Joshua and Fury but still favour guys like Ali and Holmes?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by MorningSage, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. bandeedo

    bandeedo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    29,325
    15,341
    Feb 19, 2007
     
  2. Finkel

    Finkel Active Member Full Member

    618
    604
    Feb 10, 2020
    I think those are fair points, but we also know that since the 80s diets and nutrition have vastly improved across the world. So the talent pool of Super Heavies will be far bigger current day. As an available talent pool grows, we are more likely to uncover fighters who marry size with agility and skill. Which is what I believe we are seeing in the modern day.
     
  3. mccaughey85

    mccaughey85 Member Full Member

    192
    116
    Jul 3, 2011
    I think Ali would cope with today's super sized heavyweights but he wouldnt be guaranteed to beat them all. I think Larry Holmes and most of your guys under 6ft 2 from before the noughties struggles with them. The size of the guys these days is huge compared with the 60s and 70s, even with the 80s and 90s as well. Ali I think had the exceptional skillset and adaptability to maybe cope with them to a certain extent but it's still an unknown how he would cope with the size difference. There really should be a super heavyweight division these days, theres heavyweights who are 6ft2 and 15 stone fighting guys who are 6ft 8 and 18 plus stone, hardly a fair contest.
     
  4. G Man

    G Man Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,413
    443
    Jun 25, 2011
    The law of physics doesn't apply when talking about Ali, for some reason.
     
    Bumnard_Hopkins likes this.
  5. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Burger King banned Full Member

    928
    677
    Jul 13, 2021
    Ali lost to people his own size. Guys the size of Klitschko and Fury are in a different class.

    Cruiserweight division was created for a reason.
     
    SmackDaBum likes this.
  6. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    27,405
    12,022
    May 4, 2017
    A lot of their opposition at heavy were short or lighter than Usyk is.
     
    Bumnard_Hopkins likes this.
  7. Salty Dog

    Salty Dog Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,354
    1,803
    Sep 5, 2008
    This is likely an agenda driven straw man. Assumes the same people make both statements. List them, please.
     
  8. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Real fighters do road work Full Member

    6,557
    4,285
    Oct 22, 2015
    You believe guys like Chisora, Ruiz, Whyte, Ortiz and Parker are examples of these amazing talents you speak of? They'd get run through in the 15 round era.
     
    dcr likes this.
  9. fistsof steel

    fistsof steel Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,651
    2,338
    Nov 13, 2010
    A fat unfit Mexican has been ranked Top 5 in this Era...He defeated and TKOd Anthony Joshua to take the WBA Heavyweight Title He would have a real chance against any of the Current Heavyweights......My question is how would Ruiz go against a Prime Foreman.....Ali or Tyson for that matter....Surely the people arguing that the Older Heavyweights would not match up with the Current Heavyweights would be arguing they would not match up against Ruiz also....This is an average Heavyweight division end of story Fighters like Prime Foreman....Ali...Tyson to name a few would have a field day against this lot could you imagine what they would do to Ruiz.!!!
     
    MarkusFlorez99 and bandeedo like this.
  10. bandeedo

    bandeedo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    29,325
    15,341
    Feb 19, 2007
    been preachin this sermon since late in the wlad reign.
     
    fistsof steel likes this.
  11. snake33

    snake33 Member Full Member

    270
    185
    Jan 4, 2010
    Usyk is in his mid 30s, injury prone and small. He has not done enough yet to qualify for a title shot.
    If Whyte hasn't done enough for a title shot then Usyk hasn't. And by the time he has done enough
    he'll be too old. But if he ever fights Joshua he'll lose. Big payday. Retire. And everybody will stop
    over rating him (He is no where near as good as Ali, lol).
     
  12. Spongebob south paw pants

    Spongebob south paw pants Active Member Full Member

    1,101
    1,022
    Feb 28, 2020
    Ruiz does have few plus points not many, has got very fast hands but very limited movement and range. If you group him in with those names tho it's not going to end well for him.

    I think AG though he had it won and decided to stand and trade at exactly the right distance for Ruiz to off load. Clearly a mistake on his part there, I'd still like to see Wilder Ruiz tho.

    As slick as usyk is and no disrespect a great fighter, just don't see him carrying the power to really hurt the big heavyweights at the top table. Ali and Holmes where just carrying that heavier hit.
     
  13. Finkel

    Finkel Active Member Full Member

    618
    604
    Feb 10, 2020
    Firstly, I liked @bandeedo's comment about 15 rounds being potentially harder for larger fighters of the past.

    However, from the point you are making with your fighter selection, perhaps I misunderstood what you were originally saying. My comment, was clearly responding to the idea (I thought you were putting forward) that during the 70s there were unheralded giant heavyweights the size of Lewis, Klitschkos, Joshua, Wilder, Fury. But you seem to be talking about anyone that could fight in the imaginary weight class of super heavy. Hence I'm a bit confused why you just listed fighters none of whom are over 6'4"

    I was saying the global pool for natural big superheavies is much larger due to the steady progression of factors such as nutrition. Children with better diets are more likely to fulfill their growth potential. I'm not talking about smaller men eating their way into competitive fighting weights. 5'9" Two Ton Tony was a modern Super Heavy Weight by that standard.

    I missed this post from earlier but @MarkusFlorez99 summed it up quite well
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  14. Finkel

    Finkel Active Member Full Member

    618
    604
    Feb 10, 2020
    Surely a fairer comparison would be how would Ruiz Jr. match up against the other one time winners of the belt who never defended their title in the eras you put forward:
    Leon Spinks, John Tate, etc. etc.
    Buster Douglas, Frank Bruno etc. etc.
     
    Bumnard_Hopkins likes this.
  15. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,580
    2,023
    Sep 16, 2020
    I suspect that beter than Frazier and let's drop nostalgia, I think he will KO prime Frazier.

    Foreman pushed back, sorry, I know that people here feel like insult any mention about cruiserweight, exactly cruiserweight size Frazier in order not to allow him close distance and take comfortable for him angles. Because otherwise machine Frazier had delivered him real torture, won or lost. Frazier had very good gas tank for 15 rounds era.

    Ruiz style is different : he is high guard boxer who is good in counter punching and with fast hands. Ruiz also is heavier than Formean was then, not alone to compare with Frazier.

    So, Foreman most likely had attempted to take Ruiz out and Ruiz: to throw counters.

    Yeah, I know, nostalgia and big names matters more than critical thinking. Frazier is smaller than huge bunch with current CW boxers, not alone HW boxers.

    Yeah, old era boxers will beat every one modern boxers holy mantra .

    I think Ali is 1-2 vs Frazier and Norton not vice versa. Yeah, uncle Don, yeah, nostalgia, idols.