Why do people think Marciano had such a great chin?

Want to look at them one by one? Several years ago I posted on this forum examples of how Moore did against heavyweights 210+ lbs.

 

Moore KOed Embrell Davidson in one round despite being outweighed by 30+ lbs. Davidson was a tough fringe fighter with KO wins over Liston conqueror Marty Marshall and future top 5 contender John Holman. He wouldn't be Koed again until his last fight. Moore's right was lethal, end of discussion.

 

Walcott was beating the **** of him in their first match, yet I was hard pressed to find instances of Jersey Joe's power knocking him backwards. The punch Moore dropped him with may have been the hardest single shot Archie ever landed, and Lowry said Moore was the hardest puncher Tiger Ted ever fought.

Charles crushed Satterfield, then failed to dent Marciano with the same shots. I haven't seen any instances where Rock's knees clearly buckled. Rocky himself said that his senses were never compromised by any punch he took.

Louis no longer punched in combinations, but he was still formidable on a punch for punch basis, as his left hook knockout of Savold demonstrated. (In Lee's next outing, Rocky failed to land him, although Savold did wind up going to the hospital and into retirement.)

Where is the evidence Marciano did not have a great chin? He was caught early by Walcott, possibly cold (Rocky did have a habit like Louis of napping in his dressing room before fights). Moore used his three centuries of experience to draw Marciano into a counter shot which Rocky recalled and analyzed in perfect detail. Jersey and the Mongoose were not able to replicate these knockdowns in numerous rounds of further action.

 

It is a fact that most of his stoppages against hw's were on accumulation of punches. There were exceptions, but absolute majority required plenty of punches.

 

People forget about Rex Layne, but I have sources and articles that all dubbed him a formidable puncher, particularly in his right hand. John Garfield of ESB even claimed "Layne could really crack with his right hand." When Layne faced Marciano, he was 23 years of age, stood 6'1 near 200lb, and had knocked out 25 of his first 34 opponents. In some circles, he was even being compared to Jack Dempsey. While he never met the expectations that were spoken of him early in his career, he certainly was considered a young dangerous puncher going into the marciano fight, and marciano should be given credit for easily taking layne's best stuff and putting a halt on Layne's hot streak.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKUlBPErrn0[/ame]
Here is a glimpse of Layne's powerful right hand



I do believe Louis, Walcott, and Moore were the 3 biggest hitters Marciano fought, but layne deserves a mention.

 

I find it amusing the author of this thread claimed Marciano beat "no top 100 punchers"

Yet in the Ring Magazines top 100 punchers of all time list, Louis comes in at # 1, Moore at # 4, and Walcott at # 63. Marciano didn't beat punchers my ass.

 

Yes, it took an accumulation of punches for Moore to stop Whitehurst...but Liston couldn't stop Whitehurst with an accumulation of punches in 20 rounds of fighting? I suppose Liston's power isn't top notch either anymore.

****, how many punches did it take Foreman to crack Frazier's skull? And he only stopped Norton by knocking him down three times? Bunch of pussies I say.

 

How many punches did it take Moore to stop glass-chinned Patterson?

 

Ali TKO Liston 1
Ali TKO Moore 4

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

 

Let's compare Moore to another heavyweight puncher, Max Baer. This is their ko records against men who were ever rated in the Ring Magazine yearly top ten:

Moore

ko'd 1-3 rounds--Alberto Lovell, Bob Dunlap

ko'd 4-7 rounds--Buddy Walker, Bob Dunlap, Phil Muscato, Roger Rischer

ko'd 8-10 rounds--Jimmy Bivins (3 times), Bob Baker, Alejandro Lavorante

Did not ko--Curtis Sheppard, Rusty Payne, Karol Sys, Clarence Henry, Nino Valdes, Charley Norkus

ko'd by--Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Muhammad Ali

*I did not count fighters like Charles and Satterfield fought at lightheavy.

Max Baer

ko'd 1-3 rounds--Tom Heeney, Hank Hankinson, Pat Comiskey

ko'd 4-7 rounds--Tuffy Griffiths

ko'd 8-11 rounds--Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera, Tony Galento

Did not ko--Tommy Loughran, Johnny Risko, Paulino Uzcudun, King Levinsky, Jimmy Braddock, Tommy Farr, Ernie Schaaf*

ko'd by--Joe Louis, Lou Nova (2)

*Schaaf, of course, was saved by the bell in the second fight with Baer in the 10th round.

My judgement--Moore stacks up pretty well against Baer, who also more often than not took quite a few rounds to dispose of his victims. The big advantage for Baer is that he stopped a couple of champions, although both men were on thier feet at the end.

 

Moore KO King 1
Liston TKO King 3


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

On Moore, the three ko's of Bivins are impressive. Bivins was stopped only 5 times in 112 fights against hellacious opposition. Three of these knockouts, out of five fights, were by Moore. Moore stopped Bivins twice in the 9th round and once in the 8th. Lem Franklin stopped Bivins in 9. Ezzard Charles stopped Bivins once in 4 but went the distance with him the other three times. This is an impressive show by Moore.

Alberto Lovell was stopped only twice in 88 fights, the last time being in his first fight in 1934 before Moore got him 46 seconds in 1951. Stopping Baker at all has to be considered impressive, even though Henry and Satterfield did get him earlier.

 

Anyone ever see Marciano's knees buckle on film?

 

Yep. What about his knockout of # 4 rated 6'3 212lb Alejandro Lavorante in 1962 at age 45? Unbelievable.

 

I would be happy if Rocky had fought Tommy Jackson and Nino Valdes before judging his chin. If he had stayed around in 1956, as well as floyd and medereos maybe these two would have finally got their chance.

Rocky was good at koing old light heavies by swamping them with his stamina. Outside of Rex lange and Joe louis there is no quality heavyweights he faced prior to Walcott. Look back at the record of the last six fights of the fighters rocky fought on the way up. they are poor.
Walcott and Moore would ko you with shots you did not see. moore's record koing middleweights was on a par with his later light heavy career.
He certainily did ko a few heavies mind and some good ones.

Rocky swamped old good light heavies with decent power. Could he swamp a young guy 210 ibs and 6'3 rather than 5'11 to 6ft and 185 to 190 ibs?

Not sure he never fought a big young real heavyweight contender except perhaps rex lange. Did Moore and Walcott hit harder than nino valdes, tommy jackson, medereos doubt it. They would catch you with a punch you would not see, which is the greatest asset of a ko specialist. However sometimes big guys catch with a punch you do not see and then it is lights out.

Rocky was hit able and avoid tall fighters with good jabs, an old joe louis aside.