Why do people think Marciano had such a great chin?

That's a surprise coming from you Klompton. How can Marciano's chin be overrated? When have you seen Marciano's knees buckle on film? That's right, you hadvn't. Now his chin was not as proven as others, but it certainly never came close to letting him down. In fact, we don't know how hard of a hit it takes to badly hurt Marciano..but we do know what it takes to badly hurt most champions. Some of those guys were dangerous hitters. 3 men in Rings Top 100 punchers of all time list, old or not.

Rocky's chin is a bit of a mystery, but at the same time has cemented itself as a great chin.

 

Holyfield has one of the greatest chins ever.

 

Guilio Rinaldi was not a fighter of great historical moment, but he was a top contender of the era, and twice European champion, and hardly a "bum".

These are the 1959 Ring Magazine ratings. * indicates Rinaldi defeated this man sometime during his career.

Champion--Archie Moore*

1-----Harold Johnson
2-----Erich Schoppner*
3-----Mike Holt
4-----Von Clay
5-----Sixto Rodriguez*
6-----Jesse Bowdry
7-----Johnny Halifilhi*
8-----Sonny Ray*
9-----Chic Calderwood*
10----Santo Amanti*

In the 1960 ratings, Moore is still champ, and Johnson #1, with Rinaldi victims Calderwood #2 and Schoppner #3.

Rinaldi defeated 9 men who appear in the Ring Yearly rankings=Artemio Calzavara, Santo Amanti, Germinal Ballarin, Johnny Halifilhi, Sonny Ray, Sixto Rodriguez, Chic Calderwood, Erich Schoppner, and Archie Moore.

He also drew with Bobo Olson.

Rinaldi won the European lightheavy title by beating Erich Schoppner in 1962, the only loss Schoppner ever suffered. A short time earlier Schoppner had drawn with Doug Jones. He lost the title in 1964 to Gustav Scholz on a foul, but regained it in an elimation in 1965 after Scholz retired.

Rinaldi was rated at lightheavyweight in the yearly Ring Ratings

1960--#5
1961--#2
1962--#2
1963--#3
1965--#9

Rinaldi lost a 15 round title bout to Moore in 1961. I saw that one on TV, and he looked to be a strong, tough man, but Moore easily outboxed him.

All in all, a solid contender.

 

Hard to say about this down era spinning. The supposedly terrific seventies had old men fighting for the title also. The difference is that the old men of the early fifties lost to the relatively younger Marciano, while the old Ali of the 1974 to 1978 era defeated the somewhat younger or much younger challengers--Foreman, Lyle, Bugner, Frazier, Young, Norton, Shavers--one after another.

 

Archie was like what...102 when he fought Rinaldi and 104 when he fought King?

 

It should also be remembered that Moore threw the first fight to Rinauldi in order to land a more lucrative rematch in New York.

 

How can anyone underrate Evander's chin ... he has one of the all time great chins .. he took the best of Tyson, Lewis, Foreman, Bowe, Mercer, Rachman ... he was exceptional ... as far as Marciano goes, he fought no one of this magnitude so we don't have enough to go on ...

 

Moore was arguably the victim of a hometown decision against Rinaldi and won the rematch by a clear decision. I don't see how the fights are relevant since Archie was near 50 years old at the time.

 

So Foreman could still hit at 45 but Joe Louis couldn't at 37? Even the Joe Louis of 1950 would have knocked out all those tomato cans Foreman finished off in his comeback. He also would have beaten Alex Stewart, Axel Shulz, Lou Saverese, Crawford Grimsley much easier than Foreman did. Sure, Foreman got a miracle against a undefeated champion Michael Moorer. Great win. But that was his 3rd title shot(Lost badly to both holyfield and Morrison)..What if Louis got a rematch title shot vs Charles, or Walcott again? He might have knocked them out too.

 

If the early 50's was a great era what happen to the fighters of Rocky's era when eddie machen, floyd paterson and the big finn turned up. Ezzard, LaStarza, Cockell all fell from grace rapidly. Walcott retired but was he that good in the first place? He never made it as a light heavy or heavyweight prior to world war 2. He was beaten in 1945, lost a year later, did win the rematch, then took on an old Joe Louis. Charles had his number. The problem is Charles lost his edge suddenly in 1950. Afterwards he was a contender but not special. The young heavies of the early 1950's were beaten hands down by the late 1950's guys.

Archie Moore aside nobody had a legacy after Rocky. Charles, Walcott and Louis were on the slide when Rocky met them. Archie's late career rise is down to a drop of quality in the division.

Correction Walcott was a bit chinny which cost him to often, decent but not an all time great. I know fighters used to learn in the ring and often lost a few early fights. However Rocky met very few fighters who had won there last ten fights.

The think is when you examine the division contenders in Rocky's period none of them had been great before in the heavyweight division prior to 1950 except Walcott and only Archie Moore held up after 1955. A Walcott of 1949 was decent not special the same can be said of the Archie Moore of 1956. Contenders not great champions.

Floyd Paterson was to good for Archie at 21 and is at least as good as Walcott and Ezzard of Rocky's era. I think outside of Rocky and Ezzard Charles pre 1950, Floyd Paterson is easily a cut above the fighters of the early 1950's.

Floyd was a good champion and a fair barometer of his era. I am not sure Rocky beats a light heavy Ezzard Charles from the late 40's or Floyd in 1956. I would bet against Rocky beating either.

Poor era compared to the late 1950's which was poor compared to the 1960's. I think the 70's set the world a light. I also think the quality in 1920's and 1930's was far better as well.

I think the 1920's and 1930's are underrated because there was a lot more starving desperate guys trying boxing. Best on numbers boxing the quality should have been a lot higher.

Any thoughts.

 

edit-I don't give a ****. Yeah, the late 50s was great...Tommy Jackson was a top contender...you know the guy that Valdez blew out, lost a title shot by losing to Cockell victim Jimmy Slade, and gate keeper "I job for money" Ezzard Charles knocked him around.

 

Hurricane Jackson outboxed Ezzard Charles twice, as horrible as it sounds.