Why do people think Tyson is a top ten Heavyweights?

When did Tyson face soft touches?

Geez.

In the 1990's-2001 I say he was a golden goose type that avoided dangerous matches ( unless it was a title match with a lot of money like Holyfield or Lewis )

Douglas, well he was supposed to be a soft touch
McNeely - Very weak
Bruno, who he already beat and was older
Seldon who had a glass jaw and might have given up
Botha - not a good boxer or puncher, yet he looked good while it lasted
Norris - blown up smaller man
Francis - Journeyman
Savarese - Top 15-20 on his best day
Golota - A mess
Nielsen - Terrible opposition faced

Outside of Douglas and Ruddock, were any of these guy in the top ten that Tyson beat? I'm not even sure Douglas was in the top ten! See my point?

Ruddock was a good win, but was he even in the top ten for the decade in the 1990's? I'd say no.

I think the Etienne fight was a clear dive.

While Holyfield and Lewis were top fights, Tyson badly lost them.

Why not Bowe which was talked about? Sanders, Tua, McCall ( Fight could have been made sometimes Moorer, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Morrison...someone who can punch and had ability? I see a pattern of those fights never happening. And I see a pattern of fights picked that were tailor made for Tyson

In the 1980's Tyson was busier, but failing to meet Witherspoon, who was likely the 3rd best heavy in the decade leaves a question mark. Don't assume Witherpsoon can't win. He was better than Bruno, who badly rocked and hurt Tyson in their first fight

 

A guy who faces Holyfield, Lewis, Holmes and was scheduled to face Vitali was apparently scared of....Oliver Mcall and Ray Mercer according to some.

 

No... He didn't. Because he wasn't viewed as relevant to the scene until he was used as a stay busy fight prior to Tyson's meeting with Evander. Douglas was already beaten by a few men who Tyson had defeated and was more or less a fringe guy. Believe it or not, most casual fans had never even heard of James " Tokyo Buster" Douglas.

As I said before, he beat everyone who mattered.. So in that sense he did.. In any era and with any champion you can find obscurities who a champion didn't face.. It doesn't mean he didn't conquor the entire divsion.. You're just taking it too literally.

He was rated on and off inconsistently and usually on the low end of the top 10. And yes I set the time frame from 1986 to 1989 which is when his reign primarily existed as he was beaten at the beginning of 1990. By that point the division had been pretty much cleaned out.. You now had a new rising crop of contenders with Holyfield and Ruddock being among them but those guys weren't relevant to the scene of the mid to late 80's.

Depends on who and when we're talking about.. Biggs for example was an undefeated solid contender and former gold medalist when Tyson met him.. Damiani and Norris were nobodies in 1987 when that fight took place. Dokes was on the comeback trail and had some work to do before acheiving any real status. Witherspoon had been blasted out in one round by smith a year earlier and hadn't done much since.. So no.. Those men were not more relevant than Biggs ( at the time Tyson fought him. ) Think about it.. If Tyson had fought one of those other guys in place of an undefeated olympian who was rated in the top three , what would your position be on that today? Holmes was a very recent former champion and ATG.. And while he was retired and no longer held a ranking, sometimes those " young lion meets old lion " match ups take precedence over facing an active contender.. I'm sure there were more deserving opponents than Jim Jeffries when Johnson met him, but are suggesting that the fight never should have happened?

 

If you dominate the heavyweight division for a definable era, you are always going to have a strong case for a top ten ranking.

Only a dozen or so fighters have ever truly done that.

 

Yea he top 10

 

Douglas was a tune-up but he was still #7 in the world and an established contender at the time.

Ruddock was considered the most dangerous and avoided man in boxing, was ranked #3 I believe and had allegedly knocked out Bowe in sparring. Going by rumors Holyfield wanted no part of him. Tyson deserves massive credit for taking that fight when nobody else was willing to.

There was nothing "soft" about Bruno and Seldon. They were title holders. Weak ones, perhaps, but it's not like he had a choice. Those were the guys.

Basically, he only started taking soft touches from 99 onwards when his career was pretty much done, following the Holyfield losses. And even then he had some nice scalps over Golota and Botha.

 

Ruddock was over rated and made his puncher reputation based on smashing Dokes.

Ruddock lost to Morrison and Lewis via TKO. Tyson took him the distance once. If Ruddock is Tyson's best win in the 1990's I think that sums it up. Post 1993 Ruddock wasn't rated at all, I think

There was nothing soft about Seldon???

If you don't think McNeely, and Mathis ( Pre 1999 ) were soft touches, we disgree on what the term means.

 

Ruddock turned out to be overhyped but that's not the point. Ruddock was considered an extremely dangerous fighter and one of the best heavyweights in the world at the time. The fight was ****ogous to Lewis fighting Golota right after he whipped Bowe twice and was considered the best heavyweight in the world. Absolutely not a soft touch in any way, shape or form.

Nothing soft about Seldon, yes. He had a title, what was Tyson supposed to do? Not take the fight because Seldon wasn't worthy??

How can you even bring up McNeeley and Mathis? Tyson was imprisoned for 4 years. What was he supposed to do? Pick Moorer and then Bowe as comeback fights??

People have this weird expectation of Tyson, that he should have fought everyone. And if he didn't fight the said fighter, he ducked him. Nonsense.

 

Agreed. Tyson fans saying he was pat his best at 23 years of age is pathetic.

 

I'd say just by looking at him. There's very few who looked as good and as talented as he did when he was at his best.

Passing the eye test is a critical factor in evaluating ones greatness.

 

Wilfredo Benitez and Terry McGovern were past their best at 23. Guess they were never any good either.

 

he wasn't past prime - he just lacked the lifetime self discipline and drive of a K bro or Ali.