Why do so many put Tyson in their all time top 10 HW greats?

Agreed. I think his opposition was underrated. From an overall standpoint, Tyson is probably lower top ten, because of the way his career dropped off. But head to head, prime for prime, I have him top 3.

Another way to look at sizing Tyson up:

Larry Holmes is high on everyone's top ten ATG lists. Larry Holmes had two very competitive losses to Michael Spinks. Yes, they are controversial, but the point is, they were very competitive. Tyson literally blew out both men. Larry had never been taken out like that before, or since. And while he was older when he fought Tyson, Larry had a style that lasts a long time in the boxing field, and he turned in many excellent performances, against excellent competition, many years after he fought Tyson. And Spinks gets no excuses whatsoever, so the logic double checks itself there as well.

I find that a very convincing barometer of how good Tyson really was when he was focused.

 

Tyson, at his best, could put hard punches together very well, was fairly difficult to hit, and could take some punishment before he started to wear.; his competition wasn't particularly strong, but he often performed as one would expect a great fighter to perform against such competition (TEDSPOON has a great phrase, roughly 'Quality of performance in consideration of quality of competition'; this is largely the right way to think about the competition issue).

These are the postitives that tend to put Tyson in the top-15, and often higher.

 

This sounds good to me. Tyson obliterated good solid fighters and some championship caliber fighters better than anyone in the history of the sport. Unfortunately Tyson never reached his full potential, possibly could have been the greatest heavyweight of all time had he kept the team in place that brought him to the top and stayed on track. Unfortunately the only way was to only bring him out on fight night, and pack him away in training up in the mountains on his offtime. Its suprising he was able to accomplish what he did. He beat everyone in the division and was getting ready to fight Evander Holyfield in his prime when he was starting to slide in 90. Who knows what would have happened. The Douglas loss was a fluke regardless of what you may say. He was unfocused and not the same fighter as when Rooney had him. Tyson learned a very unique style that not too many fighters could master. That all changed when the trainer was changed.
All fighters lose at some point, and not always to the greatest comp. Lewis lost to Mcall who was beaten by Buster Douglas. He also got knocked out by Rahman. Holyfield was almost ko'd by Cooper, lost to Moorer, so summing up Tyson based on a loss to Douglas is really not fair.
Tysons real career went very fast and ended the same way 5 years. He was never the same fighter after being released from prison, and the fact that he was able to be somewhat successful in the 90's as a part time fighter shows you just how much talent the guy had.

 

forget after prison he was just a name fighter who could make alot of money and thats the only reason his was fighting, plus he lost to douglas casue he didnt train, 9 title defences is pretty good, lennoz lewis got knocked out twice by 1 punch during his peak

 

As I mentioned on another post...Tyson never got off the floor to come back to win..if he had come back to KO Douglas in their fight in Japan in 1990 after taking a beating like he did..or if he had come back to beat Holyfield in their fights after being hammered I think some would look at him in a different light..

 

I think head to head Tyson is top 10 heavyweight of all time. And a lot of people feel like that.

 

These are good points. His career might have seemed short in time, but overall during his prime, which I felt ended with the last Ruddock fight in 91, he had 40 wins and 1 loss. That in comparison to Lewis who had 42 fights overall and 2 losses at the time his career ended, who some argue had a far better career to Tyson.

 

Eh... I heard of Tyson getting his ass handed to him by a fringe contender. Does that qualify?

Otherwise I pretty much agree with your post.

 

With comments like that you'd fit in great with the General Forum :good

 

Moore did have something left. He was the # 4 heavyweight contender in the world and had recently knocked out # 3 rated Alejandro Lavorante he had to be carried out on a stretcher!

 

Noone could have gotten off the floor from the pounding Douglas put on him. He was basically unconscious even though he made it to his feet. I dont think anyone could question his heart at that time in his career.
Tyson needed a Rooney type personality in the corner, to keep him mentally strong when the going got tough, he just didnt realize it until it was too late.
Every fighter has some short coming, his was his mind. Lennox Lewis would have never accomplished what he did without Emanuel Steward in his corner.

 

Tyson wasn't mentally tough...

 

Atlas called him a "game quitter", and I think that just about sums it up. Against Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis he took a lot of punishment before going down, but he never really looked like staging a comeback. He didn't seem to believe he could win, just going through the motions towards an ultimate KO loss.

 

that was when he was on the slide in 1990 and not training properley.