Why do some feel Wilder has a tougher defence than Joshua next?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Sep 24, 2017.


  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wlads retired and I dont think ageing Povetkin who was clearly beaten by Wlad would be rated as a greater win
     
  2. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This. Pulev was no competition against Wlad at all. Ortiz would run through Pulev easily. Pulev has no power, very predictable, and is robotic.
     
  3. Odins beard

    Odins beard Fentanyl is one hell of a drug.... Full Member

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    But who exactly has Ortiz beaten?

    At this moment in time both Pulev and Ortiz are on a similar level, just completely different styles.
     
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  4. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Chisora didn't look better against Scott than Ortiz did. He got by with a premature stoppage in a fight he was losing, meanwhile Ortiz won every second of the fight against Scott.
     
  5. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Chisora looked better against an undefeated Scott
     
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  6. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Because Wilder sucks more than AJ, making Ortiz a stiffer test for him than Pulev is for AJ. Pulev and Ortiz are about the same level now
     
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  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    This.
     
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  8. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He didn't. You don't look better against aomeone after getting outbox for 6 rds and winning by a questionable stoppage in comparison to a guy who won every second of the fight against the same Fighter.

    Chisora and Scott looked to be on the same Level when they fought, Ortiz and Scott didn't.

    And since you don't mind triangle theories, how about Pulev\Thompson\Ortiz?
     
  9. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Chisora looked far better in against an undefeated opponent and as for your triangle theory with Thompson you fail to note Pulev beat Thompson first when coming off a win when his last 6 fights were 5-1 with the Wlad loss, whereas when Ortiz fought him was 2-4 and coming off a loss. Thats the difference
     
  10. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Because I rate Ortiz higher than Pulev...

    Because I rate AJ higher than Wilder...


    Combine those two and the difference in difficulty is quite wide, imo.
     
  11. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You mean like how you failed to note in your triangle theory how Scott was running for dear life against Ortiz and was losing every second of the fight whereas he was clearly beating Chisora until he got stopped by a lame,premature stoppage? Gotcha.

    Oh, I got another one For you: Pulev gets annihilated by Wlad, a few months later, Jennings faces Wlad, easily Goes the distance and steals some rounds, and then Ortiz destroys Jennings.
     
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  12. Howitzer1888

    Howitzer1888 Active Member Full Member

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    Pulev has a nice jab, and that's about it. Leaves himself open, chin isn't brilliant, isn't a big hitter, hasn't got much punch variety, hasn't got very good footwork.

    Ortiz on the other hand, despite being a bit slow of foot and not really going through the gears at times, perhaps even on the slide, has a decent defence, lots of power, an accurate puncher who throws good combos & can counter punch well. In addition, he's a southpaw who can provide stylistic difficulties to opponents.

    I'm not sure why Wilder chose Ortiz. Ortiz is a high risk, low reward opponent anyway and combined with the fact that Wilder & his team over pretty much his whole career have been reluctant to fight anyone good & take any kind of risk, makes me unsure why he choose him.

    Perhaps Wilder wants to prove a point or something. If the fight does actually end up happening on the day it's supposed to happen, and Ortiz fights like he can do, then Ortiz should really stop Wilder, who has demonstrated how poor he really is in his last few defences.

    On the other hand, Joshua should steamroll Pulev. He may struggle with Pulev's jab early on but all that will do is frustrate Joshua and cause him to shift through the gears and stop him probably in the 4th round. Also I think Joshua would like to stop Pulev earlier on than Klitschko did purely from a competitive standpoint.

    Combine the fact that Joshua is a considerably better fighter than Wilder, and that Ortiz is better than Pulev, and you can only come to the conclusion that Wilder's defence will be much more difficult. I don't even favour Wilder to win, although he has that puncher's chance against almost everyone.
     
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  13. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    You are struggling a bit here. You asked me about when Ortiz beat Thompson and I noted where Thompson was in his career compared to when PUlev beat him.
    Same as how I noted that Chisora was beating prime undefeated Scott rather than the fighter blown out in a round
    As for Jennings. Ortiz didnt beat him until after Wlad had beaten him and many fighters get stopped after suffering a loss where they were credible. Look at Groves in his 2 fights with Froch as an example. Ortiz didnt face undefeated Jennings and it is the 0 that seems to have you rating Ortiz I think.
    Look at how after Curry who was a top P4P fighter at the time lost to Honeyghan he suffered other losses. That often happens
     
  14. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    lol
     
  15. Heavyrighthand

    Heavyrighthand Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Partially because Wilder is not nearly as good as Joshua

    Therefore Ortiz is seen as a bigger threat



    Ortiz to beat Wilder!!!