Why does Ali get so highly rated p4p

all the all time greats he beat Liston,Frazier,Foreman,Norton even old Floyd Patterson and light Bob Foster. He beat them. 6 ATGs. Impressive no matter what.

 

because hes one of the greatest boxers the world has ever seen

 

Because he also often wasn't.

 

He's highly rated because he earned it.

 

Although a lot of emphasis is placed on beating bigger fighters and climbing weight classes it is important to remember that there is more to p4p rankings than that. All the usual criteria that define greatness are still valid and when you are talking about the consensus #1 or #2 HW and most famous fighter in the world he is always going to be near the top of a p4p list.

I do agree with you though, he is often slightly overrated in my opinion in some of the lists I see, though I dont have a definite one of my own so I am in no position to criticize.

P4P rankings are difficult I think mainly because of the introduction of all the intermediate weight classes. People give massive credit for guys who fight at multiple weights with no more than 20lbs say between them. Is going from WW to MW (13lbs, 3 divisions) necessarily a better achievement than cleaning out one of the divisions? Also, when you consider the only time you move up more than 20lb in weight is the jump between LHW to CW you realise that HWs perhaps deserve more P4P recognition, especially those who routinely fight opponents anywhere between 10-40 lbs heavier than them. Of course, this is with todays convulted weight classes and new(ish) superheavyweights, meaning that it will only get more difficult to construct a P4P list, particulary one that goes pre-war.

I think they are meaningless, much more difficult than ranking boxers within their division, though it also seems to spark the best debates.

 

...Am I still in the Classic forum?

 

Know where you're coming from with this one - in a true pound for pound sense Ali doesn't have anywhere near as good a foil as he does for his claims to heavyweight greatness...

I think what it is - or I wonder if a lot of people tend to - select all their no.1 fighters from each weight division first as a starting point - and because so many rate Muhammad Ali NUMBER ONE at heavyweight he becomes the torch bearer for the big boys as far as the P-4-P thing is concerned - so out of the heavyweights that get a look-in, at least, he tends to figure most highly of the heavyweights.

Whereas for me - funny as it would sound to a lot of people - out of the heavyweights at least - I think my favourite, Rocky Marciano, is helped in the P-4-P stakes by the fact that he was one of the smallest great heavyweight champs (only really Burns and Fitz were smaller) - but I do struggle to really let any heavyweights get too high in my p-4-p head (other than guys who have come up from lower weight divisions to win a heavyweight title belt - which holds a lot of sway for me)

I mean for me the smaller weight division legends will/should always dominate the P-4-P rankings in my book because they simply had more scope as far as catchweight fights and cross-division fighting etc

Of people who fought at heavyweight the first ones that come straight to mind P-4-P before anyone else who fought at heavweight are usually:

Sam Langford
Ezzard Charles
Bob Fitzsimmons
Roy Jones Junior

Probably like you, Ali just doesn't really figure in a p-4-p sense for me - but thats just me I guess?

 

Seeing Jones with the other three just looks wrong somehow :think

 

Marciano may have been smaller but he also fought smaller HWs and was usually the bigger stronger man. He also was fought very few top contenders

Ali fought far bigger stronger men, bigger men than himself, more top contenders, fought at the top for far longer including past his prime and has the greater wins

You also have to look at dominance at their best and in his prime Ali look invinsable, no on could outbox him

Ali also has visably great skills, his speed is faster than most great lower weight champions

 

Its because hes loads better and Fitz was rubbish

 

Ali's most effective fighting weight was anywhere between 201 lbs (second Cooper fight) and 225 lbs. By the time he got to 210 lbs and over,he was fighting men like Foreman and Lyle who were the same,and bigger size than he was. That's the equivelant of moving from lightweight up to middleweight. The main reason was that he was ARGUABLY the greatest heavy who ever lived.

 

The difference is the others proved heir greatness time and again. Jones did i one time. Jones is not in heir league.

 

he's every bit as good as any of them.

 

Maybe. We don't know because he never proved it.