Why does everyone say Liston couldn't cut off the ring?

Young foreman was a mummy so of course he was the best at cutting off the ring. Ali's strategy was to use the ropes and see if he could take foreman's best shots and he did so he stayed on the ropes. You need to understand that Ali's mobility was too much in the liston fight.

 

Read this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAl9XDCCCHQ

 

Bert Whitehurst took him the ten round distance twice with movement. Marty Marshall took him the ten round limit in their rubber match with movement.

Machen went 12 rounds by darting around, and Sonny claimed he couldn't produce a knockout because Eddie wouldn't fight, a revealing confession. Foreman didn't use those excuses in his career, and unlike Liston, movement was not a prescription for lasting the distance against George. (In point of fact, Machen was indeed a one armed fighter as he claimed in that one, something made clear when you look at his body shot knockout of Nino Valdes in their rematch.)

Joiner went the ten round limit in their rematch, and Leotis Martin came off the floor to tire him out with movement, something which Foreman was too efficient to ever have happen to him. (Only Tommy Morrison and Jimmy Young decisioned George with movement, Morrison in an unorthodox counterclockwise pattern following huge left hooks, Young retreating behind much faster hands by initiating his double jab, but in Peralta I, veteran Greg stood his ground pretty well and made Foreman actually use his legs more.)

Whitehurst 2X, Marshall III, Machen over 12, Joiner II and Leotis, all of them under 200 pounds. That's half a dozen instances over the course of Sonny's career which have nothing to do with Ali. Of those five opponents, I've every confidence that Foreman would have knocked four out, a healthy and smartly boxing Machen being the one possible exception.

Sonny dominated all six of those bouts because of his aggression and superior jab from long range, but he failed to stop any of those opponents (and got knocked out by one of them) because he was not as efficient at cutting off the ring as Foreman was.

Ring cutting is a simple matter of keeping the lead foot between the opponent's feet. (This didn't come into play with Foreman-Qawi, but both were masters at ring cutting.) Sonny's jab meant he didn't have to concern himself much with doing this.

Finally, Ali said on camera and in print that nobody came close to cutting off the ring on him as well as Foreman did in Kinshasa, that George's efficiency at making Muhammad take six steps to his three forced Ali to quickly improvise the rope-a-dope.

Concerning Sonny's loss of the title, he got badly stunned and driven into a corner at the outset of round three with a right hand very similar to the punch which floored him in Lewiston the following year. Ali proved in back to back title bouts that his right hand had the power to drop and stop Liston in the early going. I do not consider him Exhibit A for Sonny's ring cutting deficiencies. Ali had the height, reach, punch resistance, hand speed and right handed power to manage Liston without going to his toes.

I would not bet the rent on Sonny over Pastrano the way Willie stuck and moved through the championship distance in dethroning Harold Johnson. Liston might get a stoppage on cuts, but if he didn't, Willie had a heavyweight chin to go with his speed, mobility and distance orientation. Sonny's complaints about Machen are considered by me to be a tacit admission he might not have caught Pastrano within ten, 12 or 15 rounds either.

The KD in Maine occurred at a moment when Liston was standing on his right foot alone, his left off the canvas as he was re-positioning in pursuit of his target too slowly. Foreman wasn't trapped off-balance like that. He kept his feet planted well at all times, and really had to be powered down forcefully by Ali (with the hardest single right Muhammad ever threw) and Lyle.

 

It really doesn't matter how mobile a fighter is if he's in with a good pressure fighter who knows how to close the distance. Even George Chuvalo was able to force Ali to the ropes on a few occasions. He had more success than Liston anyway who gave no indication that he could cut off the ring when he fought Ali.

 

What Joe liked to claim is that he was the fastest heavyweight coming forward, not that he was a skilled ring cutter. In point of fact, I think he was a better mover against Chuvalo, Stander, in Foreman II and against Jumbo Cummings (with quick side steps) than he was at cutting off the ring.

Smoke wasn't a guy you could try running on, in my opinion, because he'd virtually chase you right out of the ring. Peak Frazier does better against the Ali of 1965 than Liston, because he'd be charging and hooking to the body relentlessly through 15 rounds. (The great irony of Manila to me is that peak Ali never would have stopped Smoke before the final bell, but settle for a hectic decision win most like their middle bout in 1974.)

 

Frazier stated himself his legs were slow but the speed of his hands? "Watch out!" Earlier in his career Joe did a poor job cutting the ring but by fight three he had improved.

Does anyone here know how to really fight? Watch Liston many of his bouts are on YouTube. He generally followed his opponents around the ring. Foreman was the master of cutting the ring just watch him fight! Liston was poor in this regard just watch him fight! Proof is in black and white.

 

Many years ago, Jose Torres summed up Liston's flaw at cutting down the ring: When his opponent stopped, he stopped also, he should have kept on going and ran them down like Frazier would have.

 

Liston's stance with his right foot directly behind his left is great for going in and out but not laterally.
If you have want to move laterally then you have to have your rear foot offset from the front.
It was only in the Ali fights that it was highlighted and the second one was fixed anyway

 

following your opponent round the ring is something novice amateurs do.

 

He said it during TV commentary, not in print. But summed it up perfect, Liston would charge in behind a good jab, when his opponent stopped running, he would stop too, instead of running them over like Frazier would have.

 

That's up to you .on the video Archie Moore says Liston never learned to cut off the ring and . I agree with him.
Foreman was adept at doing it, he had good lateral movement.