Why does everyone think Norton was robbed against Ali?

It depends on what the criteria you expect the judges use. A lot of people think the guy landing the hardest single punch of the round erases all the lighter scoring punches from the other guy. Others just call it for the fighter who simply makes the most contact per round regardless of the force of the blows. Another school of thought is to score the round only for "the one going forward". Others still assume a total overall punch count should decide.. So there is a lot of strong interpretations.

In reality a judge must score only the legal punches on the target area that land with sufficient force using only the Knuckle part of the glove. This eliminates a lot of action. It rules out a lot of shoe shine combinations and glancing blows. It really only ever leaves a handful of real scorting punches each per round.

If both guys land a comparable number of clean, legal blows within a round the judge must then chose the one who does more of the leading off as the winner of the round. If the judge is unsure of that he can then, if he cannot seperate them on any other issue, score the round even.

When Norton appeared to work more within a round he would hit a lot of arms and borderline blows to the belt line. You can't count those. Ali did land clear single blows that were easier to count in the rounds that were hard to score. Clean jabs knocking Lens head back. This catches the judges eyes.

 

I'm confused, Norton landed plenty of clean jabs moving Ali's head. In fact I'd say, he out-Jabbed Ali. I understand what you're saying, and I agree there is some level of interpretation at work in all fights. It's simply that, no matter what criteria I use, Norton comes out ahead.

 

But you do make it close?

 

Of course, it's Ali and he had a lot of guile and experience. Stuff that champions are made out of. He made it a fight, but to a degree, some of it was just smoke and mirrors. He experienced enough, and a good enough ring general, that he'd know how to make it appear as though he won a particular round. When in fact, upon closer examination, he actually lost it... but made it close/competitive enough. That's why I don't really call it a robbery. Norton is partially to blame for what transpired. It seemed to me at least, that Norton could've bossed the fight to a commanding decision. Instead he left some doubt, not in me per se (as I have him winning every time), but enough that it's still debated today. Norton has to take some blame in that.

 

Yes close fights that have a round in them should not be called robberies.

 

I agree Ali was smoke and Mirrors by then. He stole rounds rather than won them. but Ken fell for it. He should not have. Spinks did not.

If it was simply about who was the better fighter then I would say Norton was the better fighter at that point.

But it was a close decision by your own admission.

It was more a case of Ken losing than Ali winning. I had it down to the last round. It never should have been.

 

I thought Young beat Ali more convincingly than Norton and frankly I thought he beat Norton as well. I don't think Ali got a gift against Shavers at all.

 

I think Young beat Norton, that was theft. Young squandered the Ali fight with his sticking his head out of the ropes tactic. He said later that he did it out of frustration, bottomline he blew his cool on the big stage.

 

Here are the facts .. not only did Norton land the much harder shots but he landed far more shots ..

Norton outlanded Ali 281 to 199
Norton outjabbed Ali, landing 94 to 71

Enough with the ****. Yes, Norton landed far more often and harder but Ali won .. right ..

 

The mirage was introduced during Ali's fight with Lyle. It was ropeadope done mid ring rather than against the ropes.

The fact that the three officials of the fight, one of which was a highly respected referee, scored the fight 8-7,8-7 and 8-6-1 all for Ali shows the bout was close. These were three official independent results. I was no Ali fan in fact I despised Ali in those days and I scored it 8-7 for Norton at that time and that was live at Yankee Stadium. Today where I look at fights more objectively I generally score the bout 8-7 for Ali. It was close and hard to score. Norton won many rounds early then Ali began landing right hands over Nortons low left mounting a comeback.

I generally feel Ali was ripe for the taking that night and Norton gave him too much respect. If he would have gone all out to win every round he would have beaten Ali that night. Instead he let a close fight escape him by laying back at critical moments of the bout.

 

So out jabbing him, landing the harder shots and landing over eighty more solid shots is not enough ? The big Ali round fifteen rally you mention .. Ali missed 36 of the 43 jabs he threw and landed 3 of twelve power shots .. that's his big round 15 .. in the same round Norton landed 11 of 19 power shots and outhunted him overall ..

The decision was a gift.

 

HE speaks the truth

 

If you watch the 15th Norton does nothing but follow Ali around the ring for 2.50 minutes. Purposely trying not to make a mistake and get caught. He definitely won the last 30 seconds of that round but that did not make up for the bulk of the round. Boxing history dictates you need to really out hustle a hwt champion to win the title via decision. Norton blew it.

 

And I did not mention any 15th round rally. Ali mounted his comeback mid fight after Norton gained a big early lead. During these mid rounds Ali began landing right hands of Nortons left and Norton gave away several by allowing Ali to pot shot him.