Why does Oscar get grief for fighting Forbes yet...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IsaL, Jan 24, 2008.


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  1. Shadowbox39

    Shadowbox39 Member Full Member

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    For the record, since I got sidetracked with the Tito/Vargas arguement....back to the threads topic......I have said this before and I will say it again...I think DLH should be fighting Cotto in May...winner takes FM in Sept...that has always been my stance...I think Oscar has the right idea in mind in picking a small fast opponent to get him ready for FM....but he could just hire them as sparring partners....The only gripe I would have with a Forbes matchup would be if Oscar tried to KO him instead of using the fight as a tool for training...ie: Go the whole 12 rounds to work on his endurance and jab stamina.
     
    Shadowbox39, Jan 25, 2008
    Shadowbox39, Jan 25, 2008
    #61
  2. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

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    Stuff it Kirk. you have become one of the biggest Tito nuthugger in recent times. After the way Tito unfairly brutulized Vargas you still have the odacity to root for Tito?!

    All I'll say is this and I hope your hate for Oscar and your love for Tito don't continue to blind you.

    WITHIN A YEAR Mayorga had lost to at 147 Spinks. He then announced his retirement. After that he came back to fight right away and failed to make weight to fight at 147, but in an attempt to salvage money they threw him in at 154 that ssame night only after him shedding a couple pounds to make Jr. MW, winning a sloppy and unbelievably pathetic fight against a REAL no-hoper.

    Mayorga had been in jail prior to fighton TITO and was battling in court for an accusation of raping a women in Nicaragua. He needed special permission to leave the country and at times we thought the fight wouldn't come through. Mayorga fought under those conditions.

    To sum it up: Within a year he lost to Spinks at 147, retired, came back, failed to make 147, threw a no hoper at 154 as a replacement match, went to jail, was in and out of courts for vias and accusations, fought Tito at 160 13 pounds higher than where he fought just a year before.

    Now Oscar takes an f-ing Tune up against a very decent contender and you give him crap? Even after he's been fighting the best year after year after year! I don't know what to say Kirk, I thought you were more knowledgable. I still respect you as a person though.
     
    IsaL, Jan 25, 2008
    IsaL, Jan 25, 2008
    #62
  3. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    thats because oscar is not 1 dimensional like tito is...

    at any rate... i have a serious question... is english your second language? im not being rude im honestly wondering...

    because

    winky vs tito... is a clinic
    Hopkins vs tito... is a clinic
    Hoya vs Campas... is a clinic
    Hoya vs mayorga... is a clinic

    oscar didnt win back to back rounds in the vargas fight until the 7th round man... i dont care how you cut it that aint no friggin clinic :lol:
     
    kirk, Jan 25, 2008
    kirk, Jan 25, 2008
    #63
  4. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    The Golden Fishnet has a history of fighting guys moving up in weight.

    Trinidad does not.

    That is the main difference.
     
    Thread Stealer, Jan 25, 2008
    Thread Stealer, Jan 25, 2008
    #64
  5. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

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    Vargas was hospitalized after the DLH. Vargas was nearly carried to his lockeroom after the DLH fight.

    Does Fractured cheek bone ring a bell Kirk? Does it? Vargas is lucky Oscar didn't kill him with that left hook. Infact Oscar took it easy on Oscar when he had him pinned on the corner right before Cortez jumped in and you know it. Oscar knew Vargas was done and knew all he had to do was throw straight soft punches rather than killing him with more left hooks.
     
    IsaL, Jan 25, 2008
    IsaL, Jan 25, 2008
    #65
  6. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

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    Kirk, Oscar had a great game plan and used it very effectively against Vargas. He broke Vargas down. The only round where I say Vargas dominated was the 9th. I agree Vargas won round 1 narrowly, 3, 5 and 9.

    Had Vargas not been juiced DLH would have probably beat him faster and easier.
     
    IsaL, Jan 25, 2008
    IsaL, Jan 25, 2008
    #66
  7. Shadowbox39

    Shadowbox39 Member Full Member

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    Nov 14, 2007
    Actually, you are wrong on both accounts, though I will hold nothing against you either. It just becomes tiresome hearing you all negate anything DLH did well! Regardless of who you think Vargas became after the Tito fight, he was punching well against DLH and hurt him a few times in the early goings....you can't change that fact....also, you can't change the fact that DLH did put on a great performance, showcasing (NOT POWER) but skill in overcoming his stronger opponent! (What part of that are you argueing with????) And my comparison of Tito and Vargas that you call way out in left field was about their mental status....though different effects...one getting physically battered doubting his heart/chin and the other doubting his boxing skillz against elite fighters his power has no effect on......CASING POINT: Tito's last round against RJJ...he was content to just finish the round out without going all out for a possible win by KO????? Tell me he wasn't doubting himself in that one!
     
    Shadowbox39, Jan 25, 2008
    Shadowbox39, Jan 25, 2008
    #67
  8. Shadowbox39

    Shadowbox39 Member Full Member

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    Wasting your time bro....they will no doubt give the credit for that to Tito as well.
     
    Shadowbox39, Jan 25, 2008
    Shadowbox39, Jan 25, 2008
    #68
  9. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    oook.. :huh

    you gotta be kidding me uli... :blood

    i rooted for tito in one fight of his life... against roy jones when tito came to fight and roy came to peck away against a smaller, slower, less powerful fighter 20lbs above his best weight and 3 years gone... with tito trying so hard to get roy out and roy just dancing and ****... i couldnt root for roy.. name one other fight ive ever rooted for tito in.


    your exactly right and i wish more people would realise this... this is why mayorga was huffing and puffing in the 6th round... but has nothing to do with titos selection of mayorga AT THE TIME... its not his fault nor did he know when he signed to fight him that mayorga wasnt gonna be good to go and 100%

    - Lost to spinks at 147 (losing the WW title to spinks in a championship fight is better then anything forbes has done)

    - failed to make 147 again

    ---------------------------------
    bam

    his courtroom drama has NOTHING TO DO with tito.... when tito picked to fight mayorga as a return/tune up fight... AT THE TIME it was a much better fight and more respected opponent then forbes... just because legal matters ensued (which tito didnt even KNOW about, and then when he found out... and when he found out in camp he said he believes mayorga just wants him to think he isnt training so he will slack)


    as it stood when tito signed to fight mayorga... and it was announced... mayorga was a much more respecftul and dangerous opponent for a guy who hadnt faught in almost TWO YEARS...

    just because mayorga lost his title and failed to make 147 in no way, shape, or form, does that make him any less of a choice then freaking FORBES.....

    forbes... for gods sakes...

    and he fought tito 13lbs above where he was a year earlier... (again... one fight after losing his welterweight crown)

    and forbes if fighting 14lbs above where he was in his LAST FIGHT... the weight change for both forbes and mayorga IS THE SAME so i dont know why you even bring up weight as if tito did something to mayorga that hoya isnt doing to forbes. and he has NEVER even BEEN a champion... like you said... hes a contender. mayorga was a fight away from being the champ... because he fails to make 147 all of a sudden he dips below a forbes fight???


    and tito hadnt even been in a ring for two years... this wasnt just a tune up to a superfight... it was a COMEBACK fight...



    props to oscar for his comp... and im not giving him crap im telling it like it is, that forbes has NO SHOT at winning and its a shitty fight!

    the other thing is... 147 and 154 is chalked FULL of talents and names that would LOVE to fight oscar... and would make for badass fights, so the options are huge... this is a golden age at 147lbs for our era and hes choosing a ****ing 140lber!

    im sorry that you thought i was more knowledgable, i dont even know where that came to that from how i KNOW, like EVERYONE ELSE that forbes aint **** to mayorga in 2004, neather in danger or quality of opponent, i just cant believe YOU cant see this for what it is... and you calling me a tito nuthugger is dispicable.
     
    kirk, Jan 25, 2008
    kirk, Jan 25, 2008
    #69
  10. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    What in the hell did my post have to do with oscar?????? jezus uli :-(

    my POINT to him was... (i shouldnt even have to explain this)

    he said that you can use the same rule as the tito vargas fight (a fighter being physicall broken and not being the same) as you can say with tito vs oscar....

    i KNOW he was hospitalized... and THAT fight ruined vargas WORSE (because of the mental side effects) then the tito fight IMO...

    but that had **** all to do with my post
     
    kirk, Jan 25, 2008
    kirk, Jan 25, 2008
    #70
  11. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    someone must be posting for you because vargas DOMINATED the 5th round...

    'probably'

    hoya 'probably' wouldnt have beat him at all if he would have fought him before trinidad...

    now this is where we go back and forth on that too...
     
    kirk, Jan 25, 2008
    kirk, Jan 25, 2008
    #71
  12. kaygb

    kaygb Member Full Member

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    Jul 20, 2004
    Uli-Uli, let me try to simplify this for you so someone with your er ... er .. handicap can understand.
    Tito ruined Vargas. He was brutalized, knocked down 5 times, was sent to the hospital immediately with sirens blaring, and was kept in intensive care several hours and was not released until several tests were taken the following day. Then after several months he fought weak hitting Rivera was knocked down twice and sent to the hospital after the fight. After that he fought his former sparring partner Shibata Flores, and was wobbled all over the ring for several rounds before he caught flores and stopped him. So in the 3 fights before Vargas fought Oscar, now get this, he was knocked down 7 times, knocked down twice by weak hitting Rivera, wobbled repeatedly by Flores and was sent to the hospital twice overnight for observation. Are you beginning to see why Oscar then decided to fight him. Oscar didn't do anything to ruin Vargas. It was Trinidad. Are you beginning to get it? Just another game by Oscar choosing the right guy at the right time to fight him.
    For years the Golden Fishnet said "I will never fight Vargas! That will be his punishment. He will never get that big payday!" Then Oscar saw the tito, Rivera and flores fights, clled a press conference and bravely stood up and said in that whiny ***gy high-pitched voice of his "I will fight Vargas"
    I wonder what changed his mind. So you see Uli my man, Oscar did nothing to ruin Vargas. He was not the one. Try to get help.
     
    kaygb, Jan 25, 2008
    kaygb, Jan 25, 2008
    #72
  13. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

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    Thanks for replying to all my posts Kirk. I honestly feel that my points are valid and yours are obcured by your comntempt for Oscar. FYI I'm IsaL so you know I have no biased towards Vargas, he still my second favorite fighter ever, but we will just have to agree to disagree with Oscar's descision to fight Forbes and Vargas's state at the time he fought DLH.
     
    IsaL, Jan 25, 2008
    IsaL, Jan 25, 2008
    #73
  14. Shadowbox39

    Shadowbox39 Member Full Member

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    Nov 14, 2007
    I would just love to see you explain this since most people think Tito lost to DLH....so why would DLH not beat Vargas if we take a couple more years off DLH age? I think the result would of been worse for Vargas as at no time in his career did he ever have the tools necessary to beat DLH. But please do explain your theory.
     
    Shadowbox39, Jan 25, 2008
    Shadowbox39, Jan 25, 2008
    #74
  15. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    Because Oscar wouldn't have fought him.

    "I will never fight Vargas"- Oscar before December 2, 2000.

    "Oh I can't take the trash talk anymore, give me Vargas (who takes a terrible beating and looks like damaged goods in his 2 post-Tito fights)- Oscar in 2002.
     
    Thread Stealer, Jan 25, 2008
    Thread Stealer, Jan 25, 2008
    #75
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