Why does weight class matter in Pac-JMM? It doesn't! Evidence.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by dangerousity, May 10, 2011.


  1. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And here's why:

    Pac-Hatton
    Weigh-in - 138
    Fight night - 148

    Pac-ODLH
    Weigh-in - 142
    Fight night - 148.5

    Pac-Margo
    Weigh-in - 144.6
    Fight night - 148

    JMM-Katsidis
    Weigh-in - 134
    Fight night - 145

    As you can see from these stats, both men weigh around the same. I have no doubt that if JMM weighed in at 140, he would come in fight night around 147+

    As for Pac, it doesn't matter what weight he fights at. For Margo, a fight at 150, on fight night he weighed 148, against Hatton at 140, he still weighed 148 on fight night.

    The only thing the weight class is good for is that it allows both fighters to eat the day of the fight and still make weight. At the end of the day, these are similar build men, the difference is one chooses to dehydrate himself voluntarily into LW, the other prefers to munch on food day of fight and comes in at his natural weight.

    Their natural weight is separated by 3lbs max, as was the case in their FW/SFW bouts.

    The minimum the fight can take place at realistically is 138, this would simply mean Pac would need to dehydrate himself(something many of you critisize Pac for) AND JMM would dehydrate himself also. The fight taking place at 144 simply makes it so that NEITHER has to dehydrate themselves, both can come in at their natural weight, their fight night weight and still weigh in within 3lbs of each other.


    Edit:

    To explain "carrying weight" and "bulking up".

    If I fight at 154lb but weigh in 147lb, I am dehydrating to make 147lb. 154lb is my natural fighting weight. However I choose the 147lb division because if I chose the 154lb division, my opponents would weigh 160+. Now, if I moved up to 154lb, however I dont bulk up, I simply weigh in 154lb, and fight 154lb. I am not any bigger, I have simply stopped dehydrating myself.

    Why isnt this normally done and why do fighters bulk up? Well because everyone is dehydrating themselves to get a weight advantage. The typical practice would be, if I weigh at 147lb and fight at 154lb and now wanna move to 154lb division, I cant just come in at 154lb with my natural weight, weighing in at 154 and fighting at 154, I would want to BULK up. That means putting on extra weight so that I now weigh 154, and fight at 164.

    Now the concept of "carrying weight" comes from this, this questions, that extra weight I added, 10lb, how much has it improved my power, strength, how much has it slowed me down etc. If I carried it well, everything is good balance, power moved up proportionally, chin, speed not slowed down much etc.

    The first scenario however is NOT bulking up, it is simply NOT DEHYDRATING, I still weigh the same regardless and did not bulk up, therefore do not have to worry about carrying weight.

    JMM does not have to worry about carrying weight, as he does not have to bulk up, as Pac wont outweigh him.
     
  2. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Why don't people understand that coming in at a solid unchanging amount of pounds is different than cutting weight and re-hydrating. Pac carries 144 pounds much stronger than JMM does. It's an advantage.
     
  3. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So now that we have established that Pac will be the same size fight night, regardless if this fight took place at 138-154, and that Pac-JMM is essentially the same size, is anyone still crying about the weight?
     
  4. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Explain why?

    Explain exactly what advantage does Pac have?

    Pac will NOT shrink if he went down to 140 and hydrated to 148, he will still be the same size, it just means he lost more water. It is the same for JMM, JMM is simply loosing water to currently get to 135, as his natural weight is obviously around 145 as thats what he fights at on fight night.

    The difference between this and the PBF fight is that PBF probably had 10lbs on him fight night. As a result, JMM tried to compensate by building his body up and come in at fight night heavier, which just made him look like a bloated mexican. He doesnt need to do that with this fight.

    They are both the same size, JMM dehydrates himself, Pac doesn't, why in Gods name would anyone want both fighters to dehydrate themselves? JMM can come in at 144 on weigh in and fight night be 146, WITHOUT putting on extra weight as he tried to do with PBF, he will simply come in at his natural fighting weight (the weight he actually fights with in the ring) and so will Pac.
     
  5. MichiganWarrior

    MichiganWarrior Still Slick! Still Black! Full Member

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    What a ****ing moron. Apparently this dumbass doesnt understand that Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez are not physically similar. Pacquiao carries the weight better, and its not a question of just retaining water. What an idiot.


    And do you have proof Mayweather had 10lbs on Marquez? Considerign the highest floyds ever weighed is 150?
     
  6. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :rofl

    Pac started flyweight. Weighed 148 on all his fight night weight. They both fought at FW/SFW. Pac would also be a LW right now had it not been for Oscar fight at 147. The only difference between the 2 is JMM contrinues to drain himself to 135, Pac has stopped draining himself. Draining has its advantages and disadvantages. This fight calls for the 2 fighters NOT to drain themselves.

    And what do you mean carry the weight better? Carry what weight? The only weight they would be carrying the is the weight they are fighting at in the ring which would be the same regardless of what weight Pac weighs at.

    PBF weighed that 5 years ago? Stop hanging to his weight 5 years ago idiot. I dont have proof but you have to be an idiot to not believe it so. The guy looked bigger than Shane fight night, even Steward who was ringside commentated on it.
     
  7. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Yessir !

    I'm floored by his analysis.:yep
     
  8. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    BTW for the uneducated, let me educate you on "carrying weight".

    Carrying weight is a case of moving up, forceably making your body bigger or your body has gotten naturally bigger. Taking that into account, how well has your speed/power/strength etc improved/declined with that weight.

    An example is a 140lb fighter who weighs 140lb and fights at 154lb. IF this fighter wanted to fight at 154lb, typically what a lot do is BULK up or naturally grow bigger so that they weigh in at 154lb and fight at maybe 164lb. Why do they do this? Because their opponent is doing the same, at 147lb their fighting a 154lb, at 154lb they are fighting a 162lb....typically. Now how well someone carries weight depends on how well their physical attributes transferred with that weight. If someone from 147lb bulked up to 154lb for weigh in and now comes in 162lb, however his power hasnt gone up and his speed has declined...he didnt carry the weight well. If however someone did that, he hits a lot harder in proportion to the weight, maintained his speed, he carried the new weight well.

    This does not apply to Pac-JMM because, Pac does not come into the ring with a huge advantage in weight as pretty much every other fighter does. Pac did not bulk up to fight at WW, he gained about 4lbs of muscle and just stopped dehydrating himself, also why hes not as ripped. JMM is not being asked to bulk up because he doesnt need to, nor is Pac gonna have a weight advantage on him.


    Pac, instead of playing the dehydrating game like everyone else is doing, is simply weighing in around what hes fighting at. Now a FW who weighs in at 126 and comes in at 137 cant do that, he would need to bulk up to 144 FROM 137 and come in at 148 for example. JMM however is not at disadvantage, he will simply have to also come in at his natural weight and not bother dehydrating himself.
     
  9. MichiganWarrior

    MichiganWarrior Still Slick! Still Black! Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


    And Floyd fought at SFW. Exactly one weight class above what Juan Manuel Marquez fought at. Floyd is one inch taller then Marquez.

    Are you saying Floyd and Marquez are the same size? :lol::lol::lol:

    Like I said, you're an idiot. as to why nobody is replying to your post.

    When Marquez fought Mayweather he looked noticeably smaller. When Pacquiao fought Cotto and Hatton, he looked the more muscular stockier man.

    If Marquez and Pac fight you will see a noticeable muscular difference. Pacquiao will be ripped. Marquez will have his usual chicken legs and some flab around the midsection.


    :rofl
     
  10. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    People wont face the facts? People are too fickle maybe which we established.

    Oh Im floored that you think Floyd still weighs 150 on fight night, 5 years later nearing his mid 30s :lol:

    A guy who couldnt make 144 weighed 150. Meanwhile JMM is making 135 and weighing in 145. lol. Tell your boyfriend to disclose his fight night weights...guy didnt wanna make it look any more of a sham than it was.
     
  11. itliangladiator

    itliangladiator Active Member Full Member

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    It does matter. Marquez's best weight was probably 130 imo. He will have to bulk up a little bit and has a different build than Manny. Manny can carry weight much better. Just look at his legs.
     
  12. MichiganWarrior

    MichiganWarrior Still Slick! Still Black! Full Member

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    No you're just a moron who nobody takes seriously. you actually think that just because 2 people weigh the same that they are the same. :lol:

    Hey moron, there are linebackers who weigh 260 in the NFL. There are similar regular people who weigh 260. Do you think they carry the weight the same? Do you think they are able to perform at the same athletic level? :lol:


    The Oscar fight occured in 2007. The Marquez fight occured in 2009. Thats about 2 years and 3 months.


    You truly are an idiot. :lol::lol::lol:
     
  13. MichiganWarrior

    MichiganWarrior Still Slick! Still Black! Full Member

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    Leave the guy alone. This is a severe case of *******ation.
     
  14. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thats just it, fighters bulk up in fear of being outweighed big time on fight night. JMM isnt gonna be outweighed by more than 3lbs max, so he doesnt need to bulk up, he just needs to stop dehydrating himself. Gee, Pac gets **** for dehydrating his opponents, and **** if he doesnt wanna dehydrate his opponents :lol:
     
  15. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    You ever been in a gym? Try it out, train to your baseline weight and then lose a good five to seven pounds weeks leading up to the night before through dieting and running, and then rehydrate for a fight or a spar.

    If you fought just a bit higher at a weight where you ate breakfast, lunch, and dinner no problem in the weeks leading up to the fight/spar, this version of you would have much more of an advantage. You would be stronger, have an unchanging weight backed by muscle built by unhampered nutrition and exercise.

    Now if this version of you were to fight a smaller fighter who can rehydrate to this weight (let's just say 144) but has to put on extra muscle to come in strong at the same weight you are, it slows him down and puts him in a context where you are at your most comfortable and he is at a less than optimal weight.

    For JMM, his opponent having the room to go up to 140 is already a disadvantage. 144 is a pound less than what Pacquiao weighed in to fight a welterweight capable at fighting at 154.

    The number of pounds you weigh is not what matters, but how the fighters arrive at that weight. Nutrition and consistent hydration is not the same on a body as overnight re-hydration.