Why doesnt the heavyweight division have any swarmers or sluggers right now?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Contro, Sep 24, 2023.


  1. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,882
    4,690
    Jun 7, 2016
    It seems to be all boxer punchers.
    No Mike Tyson, Foreman, frazier, marciano, Young Foreman type that i know of.

    Chisora was the last one.
    Povetkin maybe but he was a bit small and is retired anyway.
    Ruiz doesnt really pressure so i dont count him.

    I feel like a stocky agressive but skilled powerhouse is missing in the current landscape.

    We have no lanky nimble pure boxers either as fury no longer fights that way.

    There seems to be a missing diversity of styles right now.
     
  2. chaunceygardina

    chaunceygardina Member Full Member

    205
    273
    Sep 3, 2023
    I'd say Jared Anderson fits that bill, no?
     
  3. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,858
    6,072
    Nov 17, 2021
    Tough to answer. Mike Tyson, Foreman, and Frazier all vastly differ stylistically. The answer as to why their styles are not commonly replicated will not be synonymous. Let's put it like this:

    a) Why aren't there many swarmers in the heavyweight division? Death of the true inside game and Cruiserweight existing for quite a long time I reckon. Famous heavyweight swarmers were often forced to fight purely short (find an opening outside, enter and stay there, exploiting superior combinations and smothered offense of their opposition.) Frazier, Marciano, Dempsey would all be at disadvantage outside a lot of the times (not always, as there were men of their size in the division back then as well) and while we still have shorter heavyweights, the creation of a division below, and fading of the size equalizer in the form of inside game decreases the probability of a heavyweight forced into swarming style.

    Even then, Chisora aside, Kownacki and Joyce were two fighters examplifying the style. Kownacki due to size and lack of any other argument other than stamina and up to a certain point his chin, and Joyce for a similar reasons, except he actually has size. You typically swarm because your chances inside are much higher than outside, or because you consistently face better boxers and you have to deny them the comfort of controling the ring and dictating the terms of engagement.

    b) Why aren't there any sluggers in the heavyweight division? There are, to be fair. I reckon you are labeled as slugger when: your strongest argument in most fights is your punching power; or when because of other reasons your primary strategy in a contest is to knock the other fighter out. Whyte, Wilder, Ajagba, or Makhmudov are all relatively unsophisticated fighters relying whose punching power and/or chin is the main attribute they bring to the ring, as opposed to boxer-punchers like Lewis, Moorer, or selectively Klitschko. Liston and Foreman will be often called sluggers, but both were actually elite in training (Foreman was shaped by Sandy Saddler, Archie Moore; golden medalist after a year or so since he first laced the gloves; sparring partner of Sonny Liston who was a master boxer) based on their penchant for brutally knocking their opposition out.

    c) Tyson was more of an aggressive counterpuncher, who forced an opening and unleashed a barrage of precise, devastating combinations (hence why he compared his style to the old Karate.) Mike was surprisingly hopeless when actually forced to fight inside in a manner Frazier, Marciano, or even Holyfield could. Generally speaking though his style required cult-like dedication and training.

    A lot of that is obviously semantics, as the terminology and precise boundaries of these concepts can be frustratingly different among boxing fans.
     
    pacas likes this.
  4. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,882
    4,690
    Jun 7, 2016
    No i wouldnt say that.
    Hes trying to fight like pretty boy floyd, thats the easiest way to sum up his style for me
     
  5. LaidOut

    LaidOut Whaaaaat? Full Member

    2,583
    892
    Mar 2, 2009
    Joyce would be the perfect swarmer/slugger, but he chooses to fight outside his natural skillset.
     
  6. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,882
    4,690
    Jun 7, 2016
    Agree on Kownacki.
    I agree with your characterization of the styles, i mean the shorter pressure fighter who fights mainly on the inside with constant pressure and capitalizes on openings with headmovement.

    This era is missing a tua or a tyson.

    Andy ruiz doesnt really cut it for me
     
  7. Rollin

    Rollin Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,858
    6,072
    Nov 17, 2021
    Andy is a counterpuncher through and through in my book.
     
    pacas and Brighton bomber like this.
  8. chaunceygardina

    chaunceygardina Member Full Member

    205
    273
    Sep 3, 2023
    Was going on the "stocky agressive but skilled powerhouse" briefing...

    It'll be interesting to see how he turns out.
     
  9. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

    31,166
    29,082
    Apr 4, 2005
    Yep, while he likes to press, he does so to force his opponent to lead which is when he counters, if he simply chased guys and threw he'd get out boxed badly because of his lack of height, reach and mobility. He has to get them to open up first to be able to have any success. So yes he's a pure counter puncher which struggles vs pure boxers but excels against guys who lead and exchange with him.
     
    Rollin and pacas like this.