Why don't Easter European boxing gyms look like Bivol/Usyk Factories

"Why don't all American gyms look like Jones Jr/Ali factories? Are they stupid?"

The obvious answer is fighting at their level is really hard to achieve.

 

They actually do, its just that Usyk and Bivol fight at a ridiculously high level.
If you watch training footage from the 80s or even afterwards, then you will see that most amateurs in Eastern-Europe train and fight like Bivol, and to some extent like Usyk.

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Russian top amateurs in 2024:

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Poland, Ukraine, Uzbekistan... all of the top amateur countries took the Russian school of boxing and built upon in. If you go to any Eastern-European gym where the trainers are over 40 years of age, then you will see very similar training methodology regardless of country.

 

First, we have to understand what "Soviet style" means. As it was explained to me, it evolved in the 1980s when Soviet coaches traveled around the world to pick up different styles—mostly from the USA, Cuba, and Mexico. So the "Soviet style" is essentially a collection of elements that every boxer uses, but the key is that it has a name and a theory behind all these elements. Once a kid grows up, he knows all the elements but uses only those that suit him. It’s like having a paint palette, but choosing only the colors that fit your physique and experience.

One of the elements almost everybody uses is lateral forward–backward movement (we call it "feder"), which helps with checking distance, staying mobile at all times, and applying pressure. It’s used by Usyk, Lomachenko, Bivol, but also by Holyfield, Pacquiao, and Ricardo López—just to name a few of the greats from the past. So, it’s nothing new; the difference is that the whole style has a proper nomenclature and an application for every element in every situation.

The problem is that the coach needs to be intelligent and open-minded enough to learn all of this—or even attend a school, maybe in Ukraine or Russia, and spend some time there. I can give you an example from Croatia: very few coaches know about the "Soviet style." Most are still teaching boxing the way it was in the 1990s (Tyson, Jones Jr., etc.). A few elements are used, while all other moves are treated as "tricks," so the palette is much poorer. Some even laugh at certain moves. They don’t like too much lateral movement because “it wears you down quickly,” but they don’t understand that the style needs to be built over a long time to be functional, and that early results don’t matter. To become really good at that style, you need at least 10 years of training and at least 100 amateur bouts. Of course, if you’re very talented and dedicated, you can progress faster. But many coaches want quick results because they get funding from associations, and they don’t care about long-term development. As a result, many boxers quit the sport without ever reaching their full potential.

 

Interesting. I heard somewhere (documentary on cuban boxing?) that the cuban style was a russian export in soviet times. They said they sent coaches to russia to learn their style since they were the only ones going about it like a science and apparently were ahead in amateur competitions at the time and as their communist brothers, russia was glad to help.

Later the cubans adapted that 'stiffer' style to their own sentiments and made it smoother and more playful.

If the russians partly used the cuban style to build their foundations like you say @captain hook - was it a re-import by the cubans a bit later? Or is the documentary wrong?

 

I am not that versed in amateur boxing, I just know a bit about the Soviet history and how it has greatly influenced boxing in Europe, especially so in Eastern-Europe.

If you take training instructional videos from the 80s Russia, and filter enough athletes through it, you will produce champions. That´s how good the system was and still is.
You could even turn Indians into boxing champions.

 

https://m.youtube.com/@russianschoolofboxing4523

I find the quality of his technical instructions unsurpassed by anyone on youtube. I haven't watched it for a while, but I am constantly amazed by this channel

 

Because the old Soviet boxing infrastructure is mostly dead. Usyk, Loma, Bivol were the last remnants.

 

Because fighters make styles as much as styles make fighters. Bivol and Usyk have elite intangibles and are also perfectly physically suited to their styles.

'Soviet' styles are also not all similar to each other. Loma and Usyk have much more similarity to Laszlo Pap or some older Polish amateurs than any Russian boxers imo.

 

Odd comment.

India has a massive population and a lot of poverty. There's a ton of undiscovered talent there toiling away in some factory, some call center, some field. If India started up a serious boxing program like the Russians had back in the day, and actually let them turn pro, India would become a big player.

 

Isn't that what every successful fighter does? Look at the odd but sweet style mixup of Bam. Waist up, he fights like a Mexican. Waist down, he fights like he's a former stablemate of Loma. And the way he fuses the two works, damn well. I'm sure his style evolved like that out of his own physical attributes, boxing upbringing, and proper coaching.

 

Their amateur boxing system died a while back. They actually did well for a moment.
The common narrative is that they suck at sports, which they do, if being fair. But if you made them follow a basic 80s Russian/Polish training system then they would be producing champions.