The deafault pound for pound goat is Sugar Ray Robinson but why dont more people say its Henry Armstrong? Armstrong had the featherweight, lightweight and welterweight title and got robbed (according to most) of the middleweight title Why isnt Armstrong viewed as the goat He nearly had half of the world titles at one time?
Quite a few do, but for most people he's the lesser of all choices of the Boxing Mt Rushmore (Robinson, Armstrong, Greb, Langford).
I feel like Robinson is just given the default number 1 spot and I feel like Armstrong may be even more deserving
The first half is true, Robinson is automatically a lot of people's choice for GOAT because they've simply been told to believe it. By Ali, by Louis, by Bert Sugar, by the fandom, by whoever. That said, I don't think it's undeserving. If anything, while his status may be overrated next to his contemporaries, his actual resume is underrated. Did you know he actually has more wins over champions than Floyd Mayweather ? That's despite Floyd fighting in the 17 division, 3-4 belt era, whereas Robinson was fighting in the 8 division, 1-2 belt era. Floyd has more wins over individual champions, but when counting rematches, Robinson ends up with more. That's utterly mad considering Robinson had 4 times the available belts. Sammy Angott x3 Fritzie Zivic x2 Jake LaMotta x5 Marty Servo x2 Henry Armstrong Kid Gavilan x2 Bobo Olson x4 Rocky Graziano Randy Turpin Gene Fullmer Carmen Basilio Denny Moyer Ralph Dupas vs Genaro Hernandez Diego Corrales Jose Luis Castillo x2 Arturo Gatti Manny Pacquiao Oscar De La Hoya Juan Manuel Marquez Miguel Cotto Canelo Alvarez Zab Judah Ricky Hatton Shane Mosley Marcos Maidana x2 Carlos Hernandez Jesus Chavez Victor Ortiz DeMarcus Corley Robert Guerrero Carlos Baldomir Gregorio Vargas Sharmba Mitchell Andre Berto Robinson's got 25 compared to Floyd's 24. It's crazy stuff. Robinson's got other similarly crazy stats, and when factoring the quality of the opposition, it gets even better.
I think this is part of why a casual (not meant in an insulting way) may think that Robinson is the goat. I doubt that it's because of Bert Sugar but I do think that that interview clip of Ali calling Robinson the p4p goat does wonders for Robinson's standing in casual fan circles. I also think and this is an even bigger factor is that Robinson has way more footage than the other 3 and he looks better on it too. Imagine you're a casual fan right? You look at p4p lists and you see 4 main people show up over and over again. Harry Greb - No fight footage. Has training footage where to put it politely he doesn't impress. His opponents have fight footage but most of the time the quality isn't great and to a casual fan his opponents don't look impressive either. Sam Langford - Has some actual fight footage and doesn't embarrass himself in it. That's a good start but he doesn't really wow someone who is new to the sport. Henry Armstrong - Has good amount of fight footage and looks excellent in it. However, his style looks alien to a modern casual fan and he gets away with things a modern ref wouldn't allow. Ray Robinson - Plenty of footage compared to the other 3, looks ****ing fantastic, is arguably the best on the eye test out of anybody in history and if not he's at least top 5. His style looks like it can easily fit in the modern era. Robinson also appears in pop culture more often than the other three. He's portrayed in one of the most famous movies of all time, the other three can't say that. Robinson gets mentioned in battle rap. Do you think a battle rapper is going to make a bar about Harry Greb? He also has the most iconic nickname in the sport. That helps. I think those are other reasons when compared to the other 3 he gets respected more by casual fans. Obviously we don't rank boxers on footage or pop culture or nicknames but like it or not it does affect how your legacy is perceived by the general public.
I think the Greb, Armstrong, Robinson and Langford Mt Rushmore is also very niche. How many guys are you gonna find IRL that have these guys as their top 4 ? Most times it's Ali, Louis, Duran, Ray Leonard, Jones, Tyson, Mayweather, Pacquiao, and the odd Marciano, Chavez and maybe even Sanchez mention. You're probably even gonna get Usyk in these discussions now, and perhaps Inoue and Crawford in a few years. Greb is still a big unknown to the Boxing community. Armstrong is basically connected with Robinson in casual's minds, as the great guy before Robinson who was defeated by him (though he does belong with the above group to some extent). And Langford was even more unknown than Greb before Rainy Day Boxing uploaded that video on him that exploded, but most people still don't acknowledge him. Robinson is the guy who the people's GOAT considers the GOAT, so of course he's gonna get all the attention. You ever see Floyd Mayweather trying to convince people he's greater than Greb, Langford, Walker, Canzoneri or Benny Leonard ? Absolutely not, the guys he likes to compare himself with are Ali and Robinson. Stuff like that is what helps the Robinson name remain strong.
This is slightly off topic but I've always felt Canzoneri is one good viral youtube video away from being well known by casual fans. He's got a decent amount of footage and a really fun style to watch. One youtube style breakdown video is all it takes.
Canzoneri is an absolute great's great. I don't think he's that "marketable" though, outside of being the youngest American champ ever at 19. Langford got some attraction because he climbed weights like Pacquiao, slaughtered HWs and was avoided by Jack Dempsey. Canz went up divisions and compiled one of the deepest resumes you'll ever see. But because of the quality of competition, he didn't quite dominate or make a "myth" out of himself, if you know what I mean. He wasn't surrounded by a mythical figure either, like how Greb and Langford were by Dempsey and Johnson. Ross and McLarnin are stupid great, I have the former top 15 ever and the latter just outside the top 20, but they're not historic icons. I'd love to be wrong though.
Agree. Ray Robinson is quite possibly the most logical choice for the greatest fighter of all time. Armstrong is top 5 though .
I consider Armstrong to have the greatest accomplishments in boxing history by holding three of the eight titles with a draw for a share of the fourth. That’s insane. Because of that, he’s my No. 1.
