I Frazier would have eaten Holmes alive. Holmes would have wilted under Frazier's unrelenting pressure.
It would have been a barnburner. Joe may have come out looking like the loser. I tend to agree that at his absolute peak or near it he would have beaten Holmes. I would never count Larry Holmes out though. He was a great champion.
I would root for Joe all the way, but tend to favor Holmes here. He hit harder than Ali, didn't give ground as easily, and I think defended against the hook better.
"Larry didn't like to punch down" Holmes is lucky he campaigned in an era of similar sized opponents. Any of the dinky little heavies of gone-by-era would have presented him with the dreaded punching downwards conundrum. Duran should have ate his way up to 200+ and snatched the HW title, then again Holmes would have Don King railroad any sub 6 footers out of the sport lest Larry's up-punching championship reign be threatened.
Frazier in the F.O.T.C night beats any version of Holmes. He was just relentless that night and though Ali didn't have the foot speed of Ali of 68". His foot speed was still better than a prime Holmes, and the results of that night speaks for itself. But on any other night, Holmes with that punishing jab, and underestimated right hand probably wins a close dec.
Ali didnt have foot speed in71 when he lost to Frazier, he spent half the night on the ropes,because he didnt trust either his legs or his stamina after his layoff.No way in the world would a prime Larry be propped up in a corner . Larry had the antidote for the short bobber and weaver too ,a great uppercut. He beats Joe.
So Ali didn't start out on his toes in the fight of the century? And in your opinion Frazier's pressure had nothing to do with Ali being on the ropes LATER in that fight. Is that what your saying? Because if it is re-watch fight of the Century (IF you actually saw it) . It was Frazier's pressure that eventually forced Ali to the ropes. This wasn't Manilla where Ali had lost his legs.
He started out on his toes but soon realised he couldn't sustain it .He had had 18 rds of competitive boxing in 4 years! Don't get snotty with me Pal, I saw the fight when it actually happened,I own a copy of it and have watched it probably 25 times! If you think he was boxing as he did before his layoff," floating like a butterfly ,"until the late rounds, perhaps its you who needs to watch it!
If you actually read what I wrote I said Ali wasn't what he was in 68. But his foot speed in my opnion was still better than most heavy's including Holmes on that night . And again the unrelenting pressure that Frazier applied on that night had in my opinion as much to do with the results of that fight, as much of the lay-off. Possibly more. I guess in your opinion Ali beat his own ass.
That is a double edged sword. That uppercut is a dangerous punch against a fighter like Frazier. Holmes could land it but in reality it probably isn't going to stop Frazier from coming forward and fighting his fight. On the other hand Eddie Futch actually wanted Joe to bob and weave to draw that uppercut from Ali. If Holmes telegraphs it or is a shade behind with it he could get tagged by that lefthook. He could find himself on the canvas. Holmes was a fine champion with a big heart. I don't recall him facing anyone that fought like Frazier {no Tyson doesn't count for various reasons}. I saw Larry Holmes take big shots and even go down on occasion and comeback to recover and win. With Frazier I think It`s a different situation. Guys like Weaver and Shavers and Snipes hurt Larry pretty badly but none of them had tortured him to the body for 8,9,10 rounds before like Joe Frazier would. There is just nothing in Larry Holmes arsenal that is going to keep Joe Frazier from coming forward and getting inside. He would score plenty and as I stated in my original post Joe may look like the loser as far as facial damage is concerned. That was common for Joe anyway. I think Joe Frazier grinds Larry down over the course of a long fight and either wins a decision or perhaps a late stoppage. I do respect your opinion that Holmes could win as well. He was one of the all time greats. I am a fan of both.
I`ll have to review Ali/Bonevena and see if Ali rested on the ropes that night. I don't recall him doing that for any extended period but Its been awhile since I have viewed that bout. If he didn't?
I agree. Ali doesn't have to be the same fighter he was in `67 but he could still move better and was also faster than Larry Holmes. That is my opinion. I don't think Holmes as great as he was had the same gifts that Ali had. He was pretty close. I guess what I`m saying is that an 85% or 90% Ali may be still be more talented than Larry Holmes.
