Why Hagler Could Take a Punch

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SorceryatCaesar, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. rusak

    rusak Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Foster was also KO'd by Doug Jones, who wasn't 200 pounds. I'm not saying that Hagler's chin was terrible or anything like that, but the reality is that you are comparing Hagler to guys who moved up the weight classes, something Hagler didn't do.
     
  2. Gesta

    Gesta Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Didn't the shot that broke Hearns hand hit Hagler on the forehead area? and also cut Hagler, the forehead is one of the hardest spots on the body/ head so it is not so much that Haglers skull was thicker . Hagler was always in top shape and was a great boxer who did not stick his chin out which is also responable for having a great chin.
     
  3. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    I couldn't possibly agree more. I'm an enormous fan and admirer of divisional dominance i.e. the traditional way to carving out a legacy and in turn, I don't weigh pound-for-pound heavily on weight jumping. To some, that's the definition of it and I disagree. Many great fighters were successful moving up in weight, but many of them also established themselves in each one by either beating other elite fighters or having an extended stay at the weight, cutting through numerous contenders.

    But yeah, if you're going to flop around, none did it quite like Armstrong. In a 13-month span he knocked out Petey Sarron for the World Featherweight crown, beat up Chalky Wright and Baby Arizmendi at lightweight, battered Barney Ross for the World Welterweight title, won a war with Lou Ambers for the World Lightweight title then turned around and defended the Welterweight crown against #1 Ceferino Garcia. No trinkets involved.
     
  4. rusak

    rusak Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You mad, nuthugger? :rofl

    You really know how good someone's chin is when they move up in weight and fight bigger guys. Hearns did this, Leonard did this, Duran, Robinson, etc. Hagler didn't and you're comparing his chin to guys who did.
     
  5. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

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    Well, Kid Gavilan certainly deserves to be rated higher than Hagler in terms of Chin but Hagler was pretty much a definitive natural middleweight, set on establishing a legacy in one of boxing's greatest divisions. These guys aren't blowing smoke about what it meant to be a Champion and 160 to 175 is one of the biggest leaps. There was no inbetween at the time either. Duran moved up out of necessity and Hearns had lots to grown into.
     
  6. scotty

    scotty Guest

    Horrible post and horrible analogies. This is the thing wrong with the rabid generation of Floyd and Pacquaio fans. They put so much emphasize into moving up in weight they forget that it's equally if not more impressive dominating your natural division and taking on all comers.

    You saying that Hagler's chin is not proven until he moves up in weight is remedial. At that time the SMW division barely existed, so Hagler literally had to move up to 175.
    Can we bash Carl Froch for not really having a 'good chin'? he after all stayed at 168, maybe we should see how well his chin holds up against Yoan Pablo Hernandez?
    Marvin Hagler took a barrage of big punchers at 160 and he was hit on numerous occasions by shots that would have koed most MW'S throughout history. That's enough evidence for me in determining the strength of his chin and punch Resistance.

    Moving up in weight really pisses me off. There is nothing impressive about taking baby titles from B Rated fighters in various weight classes and flexing some mythical p4p rankings.
     
  7. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Evidence of Hagler's decline was in the Roldan fight.
     
  8. UncleDenny

    UncleDenny New Member Full Member

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    From personal experience, I tend to take blows better when I am lifting weights. Stronger neck i guess.
     
  9. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mad? About what? :huh

    No son, I don't really care what some clueless little douchebag thinks about this with your whole two years of interest in the subject. When you know what the hell you're talking about, it will make itself evident, I suppose.

    Next.
     
  10. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I am not sure if that was the punch which hurt Tommy's hand. After that he still threw hard punches. I think it was after that exchange before Marvin landed a big right on Hearns. I think the punch which broke his hand was thrown right after Bernstein says "it was hagler initiating it not Thomas Hearns" then punch lands right at the end of that statement.
    Actually the cut was caused by Hearns mouthpiece. One day I wanted to find out for sure when the cut happened, so analyzed the tape. it happened with 1:20 1:19 seconds left in the round. Hearns is throwing a right body punch and moving left and Hagler is throwing also a right to Hearns body at the same time and moving left also and Hearns mouthpiece slides across Marvin's forehead. The force of both throwing body punches on the inside at the same time and the force caused the cut from the mouthpiece friction. No one else has ever figured this out or maybe never wanted to. I am 100 percent correct in this. Hearns was tired and when he was tired he sometimes would have his mouthpiece out to help him breath and it happened very accidental.
     
  11. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    when Marvin was 28? I don't think so. Roldan was trouble for anyone, and that knockdown was a pull down. Roldan gave Hearns,Hagler and Nunn problems. What I think is Hagler's decline was caused by his inactivity after Hearns and his motivation seemed to go down. I think he put his all mentally and physically into his fight with Hearns after Leonard never fought him. I think he wanted to prove something.
     
  12. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Aside from the inevitable grip of aging, Hagler's biggest problem then was the fact that by 1985, he was only fighting once a year. Not the right thing to do for a fighter getting up in years.
     
  13. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    he was fighting more than that. Compared to Hopkins now , he was very young. He had a long career I agree, but in the end he ended up with 398 rounds total. 1984 he fought two times Roldan and Hamsho in pretty much the same time as his fights in 1984 were spread out, and in 1983 3 times Sibson,Scypion and Duran, After Hearns is when he took one year off and then fought Mugabi. Then after Mugabi he mentioned retiring after Ray came out of retirement, yet then fought Ray over a year after the Mugabi fight, but he was active enough. 3 fights 1981, 2 in 1982, 3 in 1983 2 in 1984, 1 in 1985, 1 in 1986 and 1 in 1987 and retired. I just don't think he was diminishing much prior to Hearns. He was always fighting tough guys. You know the interesting thing is Hagler and Hearns both retired with 67 fights and Hagler has 398 rounds and Hearns 380 but Hearns fought another 25 times after the Hagler fight, Hagler only 2 times after Hearns.
     
  14. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's what I'm saying.......one in 1985, one in 1986, then Leonard in '87. That's not enough. Yes, he was active enough in '81-'83, but that doesn't speak to latter years, when he was pushing and past 30. Big difference.
     
  15. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    30 is not exactly a tremendous age considering he was never knocked out to that point or ever. I think his decline was due to mental and not physical. He was active up until Hearns and then he dropped his activity, although he was scheduled to fight Mugabi in Nov of 85 and his nose was broken in sparring, Something like that, I forget the details. He still had 2 fights in 1984 which were the same amount as his fight in 1982, and since he fought at the end of 1983,, that means from Nov to Oct of 1984, he fought 3 times, which is not really inactive. Then after that fight with Hamsho in the rematch, he signed to fight Hearns, which the hype for the fight took longer. I just think it was his mental energy which went down.
    Some people think he looked great with Sibson and not with Roldan, but I still think Roldan makes guys look bad. Hamsho in the rematch never hit Hagler, and actually resorted to the head ramming because he couldn't land clean on Marvin.