Why Hopkins would beat Monzon at MW

Well sure, Hopkins remained undefeated and unified the division, but his resume pales in comparison to Rodriguez's middleweight resume:


Rubin Carter X 2
Holly Mims
George Benton
Bennie Briscoe
Jose Monon Gonzalez X 2
Tony Mundine
Yama Bahama X 2
Gene Armstrong
Denny Moyer
Joey Giambra
Luis Federico Thompson
Isaac Logart
Wilbert McClure x 2
Ted Wright
Dave Hilton

So if we're honest, who really achieved more?

Would Rodriguez lose to any of the guys that Hopkins beat at middleweight? I doubt it, unless he was shot or getting robbed as per usual.

 

Monzon's a bad stylistic matchup for Luis, but that said, Curtis Cokes is a fair bit quicker than Carlos Monzon imo. I wouldn't be shocked if Luis found a way to beat Monzon, but I must say Carlos would be a sizeable favourite to win it imo.

 

Gee I don't know, probably the guy who made twenty title defenses.

This is taking level of opposition way, way beyond it's reasonable context.

 

Monzon is def one of the all time great middles, no doubt about it. But, if we get away from comparing opponents, and look at how they match up stylistically... I have to go with Hopkins. He matches up well, (sizewise) with Monzon. He has a great chin, so I can`t see Monzon getting him out of there. So, it comes down to boxing, good bodywork and ring savvy. Hopkins has good enough power to make Monzon respect him (young Hopkins ) and a sharp jab which would keep Monzon at bay. I see Monzon keeping it close early on, the Hopkins taking control around the 4th and cruising home with the decision. And yes Hopkins could do it over 15 if he had to, he is that level of fighter. I just think that Monzon, while a great fighter, had just enough *****s in his armor that a true technician like Hopkins could exploit...

 

So Bogs was an ATG and Valdez was a better Middle than Hopkins. Glad we've founded our arguments on good old fashioned uncontroversial pretenses. Of course Monzon giving some nobody Euro-mug with a swiss cheese defence an unsophisticated slapping is just a great one.

Hopkins would eat Monzon.

 

Glad you've founded your argument on statements that were never said in the first place.

Bogs not being a bum and Valdez being a good win at middleweight doesn't translate to the above.

 

IIRC Hopkins said at his best, Monzon would be the only one (or one of them) that could beat him.

 

How so?

Man for man you can clearly see Rodriguez has a stellar resume at the weight.

For most of those defences Nard only defended his 1/4 slice of the world championship..something that wasnt possible in LMR's day.

So Rodriguez had to do the next best thing and beat other contenders whilst trying to push for his shot at the title that was generally monopolised by only one guy.
And he beat a **** load of them...I dont have any problem saying that LMR's best 5 opponants at the weight are a clear level better than Nard's.

 

Yes I think he would, I wouldn't make anyone a vast favourite but no way does he go undefeated against a Holmes (6'2 slick southpaw), Trinidad, Delahoya, Vanderpool, Joppy. Echols and Mercado would be dangerous for any WW coming up in weight

Trying to figure out if this is trolling or genuine?

 

Why doubt that he would beat them all, if we wasn't too far past prime or being robbed?

He's certainly schooled a better bunch of fighters than that, and did so fairly consistently until the end.

Not exactly a troll, but i was trying to be provocative (hey wait, isn't that part of the definition of a troll?).

So do you agree that Louie's resume dumps on Bernards at middleweight?

 

Because he's a WW weighing around 152lbs in his prime against a plethora of styles all with significant size advantages, and 1 of those styles is likely to have his number. That and the fact he could and was ko'd. I think Rodriguez to be superior to Tito/DLH and would pick him but was Cokes really better than those men? Not from what I've seen

As for Rodriguez having a better resume at MW, I'd say no. I'm not an expert on the era but the only names I'm familiar with are Benton, Mundine, Carter, Briscoe. All good wins but are these the creme dela creme? I'm a big fan of Carters, the brutal power and his short sharp combinations, but in truth he didn't do a good job setting up his punches and could be outmanouvered/outsped by the better boxers, but then again I had him beating Giardello (yes I've seen the fight)

Briscoe I'm also a bit of fan of, better than most of Hopkins MW opponents, but he too was a bit of a plodder and he may have been green and not the fighter he'd become. In truth he never managed to pull it out against the best

Benton looked in the 1 fight I've seen him in to be pretty impressive. Mundine I didn't think too much of and the family certainly weren't blessed with the best genetics for durability. I'd take an educated guess that the remaining names were gatekeeper level and not worth writing home about.

I also think many of Hopkins opponents are at least a little underrated. In this era most of these fighters only got to face 1 elite fighter in Hopkins while they were in their prime, if they fought lesser champions maybe they would have won, if they all fought each other as happened in the 60s 1 of the contenders would be seen as the second best, instead they just dont have the resume. Resume proves ability but it doesn't mean the ability isn't there. Kelly Pavlik will be remembered as greater than nearly all these contenders, but nearly all put up a better performance than him against BHOPS, so maybe they were better than him...

 

There are a fair few recognisable names on Nards MW resume...many weren't prime though.

Johnson pre-prime

Jackson, Brown, Hoya post prime...Hoya still very capable but a very long way from his best weight.

 

147 was his best weight but he looked very good at 154 making his way back to P4P status so I think the win is a little underrated, he's certainly more far proven than Napoles above WW. If he campaigned at 160 he could have beat contenders of the level of Eastman, Allen and maybe Joppy. He lost against Sturm but always did badly against jabbers

 

Plus he defo came in better shape against Nard..he looked soft as hell against Sturm.