Why I predict Pac to beat Marquez

SugarShane_24 · Oct 23, 2007

Well, for starters almost everyone here on ESB respects opinion which are properly explained and is within bounds of logic.

Since the Pac-JMM match-up is one of the hottest and most talked about here on ESB, I chose to give my own analysis/opinion supporting my belief that Pac will beat JMM once the bell rings.

Here's my take...

Right now, Pac is in his prime, and has a lot of added weapons on his arsenal. The obvious ones being the development of his right hand as a potent weapon and significant improvements of his defense. It's already given that he can punch and never lost that speed. And with Freddie Roach still in his corner, Pac will surely get sound advice before and during the fight.

On the other hand, JMM is still the excellent counterpuncher he has always been plus all the additional tools(boxing skills. stamina etc.) that made him one of the best featherweight in years. His left hook is superb too. And a very versatile one to boot. He can fire it short and compact or long and wide.

Nevertheless, I figured that JMM has slipped a bit throughout the years. Add the fact that he has had draining wars with Pac and MAB, plus he also took some damage on the Jandaeng and Jaca fights. That will take a toll especially on someone who is on an advanced age.

Lastly, their match of styles. Okay, Pac performed poorly against MAB. He failed to get the KO a lot of people were expecting. I concede that. And I won't use his lack of preparation as an excuse here. But you can make a case for MAB not willing to risk his mug for his last fight and became much more cautious and unwilling to exchange than he should. Thereby leading to his clear-cut defeat.

What's that got to do with JMM? Well, IMO, skillwise, MAB is a much better boxer than JMM. JMM tends to stand more in front of his opponent and wait for the opportunity to counterpunch. And that put's him on his opponent's punching range. That's also the same reason why his first fight with Pac ended up in a stalemate. Whether you believe he won or not, you have to admit that he took a lot of punishment and was also damaged when the bout ended.

Lastly, I figure that JMM is much more vulnerable than MAB and EM. Pac dropped him thrice. He even was in deep trouble after MAB dropped him hard.

That would be a problem for him the next time as Pac has, as mentioned earlier, an expanded arsenal. The speed that troubled him the last time will still be there too. And Pac can go downstairs much more often now thereby giving JMM much more confusion.

Unless JMM unleashes something that I still haven't seen before, I'd say Pac by close but unanimous decision.

saul_ir34 · Oct 23, 2007

1. I disagree with the you saying that he is starting to slip. He is a master boxer but that doesnt get you popularity especially in the lower weight class. look at Mayweather he is criticized for the way he fights but luckily he is in a higher weight class. The only way MArquez could have gotten the big fights is if he becomes more famous which involves trading more and forgetting about boxing. Most people only want to see wars rather than watch a skillfull boxer operate which is what Marquez original style used to be. Marquez is doing this to get more notice and get the big paychecks.
2. The other thing is after the JMM-PAC fight i though Pac looked like he had taken most of the punishment. I remember seeing pictures of both after the fight and Pacs face was pretty messed up compared to JMM.
3. Yes he does have unsteady legs but he gets up and keeps fighting he is not discouraged after he is dropped. HE HAS HEART. No i dont think he is worn out he is old but hasnt been in many wars.
4. Even if MAB was in survival mode why didnt Pac use his supposedly improved right hand that he added to his arsenal.

I am not saying JMM will beat Pac but to say that PAc will beat him is nonsense this is a 50/50 fight in my book. I just hope it gets made.

chimba · Oct 23, 2007

First of all JMM has not really changed hes still in his prime...Dont get fooled by the Jaendeng and Jaca fight. He choose to be agressive in order to make hismelf more marketable for the looming fight with MAB.

Pac has carried his speed and power well to 130 but he has lost some in both from 122. Wtach some videos of him in 122. He was easily quicker and more powerful at that weigh as evidenced by all KO wins thru 122.

I would say this fight is 60 - 40 for PAC and maybe even 50-50 if PAC have problems with the weight as with the MAB fight

saul_ir34 · Oct 23, 2007

chimba said:

First of all JMM has not really changed hes still in his prime...Dont get fooled by the Jaendeng and Jaca fight. He choose to be agressive in order to make hismelf more marketable for the looming fight with MAB.

Pac has carried his speed and power well to 130 but he has lost some in both from 122. Wtach some videos of him in 122. He was easily quicker and more powerful at that weigh as evidenced by all KO wins thru 122.

I would say this fight is 60 - 40 for PAC and maybe even 50-50 if PAC have problems with the weight as with the MAB fight
Click to expand...

I know your a Pac fan and its impressive to see that you acknowledge its not gonna be "easier" this time around. and also on the JMM slipping "theory"

chimba · Oct 23, 2007

saul_ir34 said:

I know your a Pac fan and its impressive to see that you acknowledge its not gonna be "easier" this time around. and also on the JMM slipping "theory"
Click to expand...

:rofl JMM easy??? This is the fight I'm most afraid of... Im the most objective and reasonable PAC fan here. I think that if you root for a fighter and be honest with his capabilities..then you are a true fan

SugarShane_24 · Mar 15, 2008

SugarShane_24 said:

Well, for starters almost everyone here on ESB respects opinion which are properly explained and is within bounds of logic.

Since the Pac-JMM match-up is one of the hottest and most talked about here on ESB, I chose to give my own analysis/opinion supporting my belief that Pac will beat JMM once the bell rings.

Here's my take...

Right now, Pac is in his prime, and has a lot of added weapons on his arsenal. The obvious ones being the development of his right hand as a potent weapon and significant improvements of his defense. It's already given that he can punch and never lost that speed. And with Freddie Roach still in his corner, Pac will surely get sound advice before and during the fight.

On the other hand, JMM is still the excellent counterpuncher he has always been plus all the additional tools(boxing skills. stamina etc.) that made him one of the best featherweight in years. His left hook is superb too. And a very versatile one to boot. He can fire it short and compact or long and wide.

Nevertheless, I figured that JMM has slipped a bit throughout the years. Add the fact that he has had draining wars with Pac and MAB, plus he also took some damage on the Jandaeng and Jaca fights. That will take a toll especially on someone who is on an advanced age.

Lastly, their match of styles. Okay, Pac performed poorly against MAB. He failed to get the KO a lot of people were expecting. I concede that. And I won't use his lack of preparation as an excuse here. But you can make a case for MAB not willing to risk his mug for his last fight and became much more cautious and unwilling to exchange than he should. Thereby leading to his clear-cut defeat.

What's that got to do with JMM? Well, IMO, skillwise, MAB is a much better boxer than JMM. JMM tends to stand more in front of his opponent and wait for the opportunity to counterpunch. And that put's him on his opponent's punching range. That's also the same reason why his first fight with Pac ended up in a stalemate. Whether you believe he won or not, you have to admit that he took a lot of punishment and was also damaged when the bout ended.

Lastly, I figure that JMM is much more vulnerable than MAB and EM. Pac dropped him thrice. He even was in deep trouble after MAB dropped him hard.

That would be a problem for him the next time as Pac has, as mentioned earlier, an expanded arsenal. The speed that troubled him the last time will still be there too. And Pac can go downstairs much more often now thereby giving JMM much more confusion.

Unless JMM unleashes something that I still haven't seen before, I'd say Pac by close but unanimous decision.
Click to expand...

Or late round KO. :deal

Damn I can't edit my post.

Chileno606 · Mar 15, 2008

Marquez is not in his prime anymore. 34 is not prime for a small fighter, much less one thats been in wars. He is past it by a bit, as his last few fights showed. In his younger days he would hardly get hit. Its true he adopted a more aggressive fight style in a few fights, but even when he wasnt brawling he did not look like the prime JMM.

reed_man02 · Mar 15, 2008

I have noticed that most people picking pac point to JMM age. If that is brought up after pac wins, pac fans cant ***** about it as they used that reason as to why they felt pac would win.

mad_takamura · Mar 15, 2008

reed_man02 said:

I have noticed that most people picking pac point to JMM age. If that is brought up after pac wins, pac fans cant ***** about it as they used that reason as to why they felt pac would win.
Click to expand...

First of all reedman there should be no excuses by either parties because both trained hell before this fight. JMM trained 3 months and pac "trained" 2 months here in the u.s., though from what i heard pac admitted he started his training here at the phi starting early jan so he was well conditioned even b4 training there, so that makes 10 weeks not 8 weeks as was supposed. So both came prepared physically, mentally and even spiritually as too much is at stake here: pride of country, revenge for his country men(jmm) and redemption from some critics(pac) ,seeing who is the best man after the first fight they had, and the s.f. king title if you have that opinion as ring also stated. Don't ***** around that if pac wins we pac fans would expect you all jmm fans to complain of his age that is not right. I have high respect for jmm's capabilities and for me i regard him as the best counter puncher of the sport.
But my heart is for pac basically because i'm a filipino. But the real point here is: have respect for both parties, no excuses and may the best man win. They both come prepared and like jmm said: it will be a war. I believe that and that is what i expected to see.

mad_takamura · Mar 15, 2008

SugarShane_24 said:

Well, for starters almost everyone here on ESB respects opinion which are properly explained and is within bounds of logic.

Since the Pac-JMM match-up is one of the hottest and most talked about here on ESB, I chose to give my own analysis/opinion supporting my belief that Pac will beat JMM once the bell rings.

Here's my take...

Right now, Pac is in his prime, and has a lot of added weapons on his arsenal. The obvious ones being the development of his right hand as a potent weapon and significant improvements of his defense. It's already given that he can punch and never lost that speed. And with Freddie Roach still in his corner, Pac will surely get sound advice before and during the fight.

On the other hand, JMM is still the excellent counterpuncher he has always been plus all the additional tools(boxing skills. stamina etc.) that made him one of the best featherweight in years. His left hook is superb too. And a very versatile one to boot. He can fire it short and compact or long and wide.

Nevertheless, I figured that JMM has slipped a bit throughout the years. Add the fact that he has had draining wars with Pac and MAB, plus he also took some damage on the Jandaeng and Jaca fights. That will take a toll especially on someone who is on an advanced age.

Lastly, their match of styles. Okay, Pac performed poorly against MAB. He failed to get the KO a lot of people were expecting. I concede that. And I won't use his lack of preparation as an excuse here. But you can make a case for MAB not willing to risk his mug for his last fight and became much more cautious and unwilling to exchange than he should. Thereby leading to his clear-cut defeat.

What's that got to do with JMM? Well, IMO, skillwise, MAB is a much better boxer than JMM. JMM tends to stand more in front of his opponent and wait for the opportunity to counterpunch. And that put's him on his opponent's punching range. That's also the same reason why his first fight with Pac ended up in a stalemate. Whether you believe he won or not, you have to admit that he took a lot of punishment and was also damaged when the bout ended.

Lastly, I figure that JMM is much more vulnerable than MAB and EM. Pac dropped him thrice. He even was in deep trouble after MAB dropped him hard.

That would be a problem for him the next time as Pac has, as mentioned earlier, an expanded arsenal. The speed that troubled him the last time will still be there too. And Pac can go downstairs much more often now thereby giving JMM much more confusion.

Unless JMM unleashes something that I still haven't seen before, I'd say Pac by close but unanimous decision.
Click to expand...

SUgar shane as a pac fan myself: i hope that your analysis is correct but i give respect to jmm's capabilities and i disregard age.
I myself doubted way back before that jmm really won on mab, because mab gave a great fight and jmm brawled with mab a little bit during that fight. His previous fights showed a more marketable jmm, brawling and guns a blazing. Yet i have to disagree that mab is the better boxer of the 2. If a definition of a boxer for you is someone who stays in the right range and go upstairs or down stairs but when it comes to combinations jmm is way better. You stated that jmm had a great left hook, i agree yet you forgot his uppercuts as well. Jmm's uppercuts IMO is one of the best right now from what i saw.
What if jmm chose to go outside to lure pac to come to him especially that jmm has the belt? He has the right to do it. That is my fear. If pac decides to cut the ring fast then he have to put his gaurd down tad a bit and when jmm sees that opening it's combination time if not a flush good left hook. Jmm's efficiency is his eye speed and judgement on what punch to throw. Just give that opening and you're dead.
And both preparations by both parties should be credited coming on to this fight. And who have the lnger preparation for this? It's JMM. 3Mo's = 12 weeks.

puga_ni_nana · Mar 15, 2008

reed_man02 said:

I have noticed that most people picking pac point to JMM age. If that is brought up after pac wins, pac fans cant ***** about it as they used that reason as to why they felt pac would win.
Click to expand...

i picked pac because pac has improved and not that marquez has aged.
thats why there is a "no excuses" thread a couple of days ago. if you feel that marquez will not win, then say it now so that you will not look foolish making excuses after the fight.

brown_bomber · Mar 15, 2008

SugarShane_24 said:

Well, for starters almost everyone here on ESB respects opinion which are properly explained and is within bounds of logic.

Since the Pac-JMM match-up is one of the hottest and most talked about here on ESB, I chose to give my own analysis/opinion supporting my belief that Pac will beat JMM once the bell rings.

Here's my take...

Right now, Pac is in his prime, and has a lot of added weapons on his arsenal. The obvious ones being the development of his right hand as a potent weapon and significant improvements of his defense. It's already given that he can punch and never lost that speed. And with Freddie Roach still in his corner, Pac will surely get sound advice before and during the fight.

On the other hand, JMM is still the excellent counterpuncher he has always been plus all the additional tools(boxing skills. stamina etc.) that made him one of the best featherweight in years. His left hook is superb too. And a very versatile one to boot. He can fire it short and compact or long and wide.

Nevertheless, I figured that JMM has slipped a bit throughout the years. Add the fact that he has had draining wars with Pac and MAB, plus he also took some damage on the Jandaeng and Jaca fights. That will take a toll especially on someone who is on an advanced age.

Lastly, their match of styles. Okay, Pac performed poorly against MAB. He failed to get the KO a lot of people were expecting. I concede that. And I won't use his lack of preparation as an excuse here. But you can make a case for MAB not willing to risk his mug for his last fight and became much more cautious and unwilling to exchange than he should. Thereby leading to his clear-cut defeat.

What's that got to do with JMM? Well, IMO, skillwise, MAB is a much better boxer than JMM. JMM tends to stand more in front of his opponent and wait for the opportunity to counterpunch. And that put's him on his opponent's punching range. That's also the same reason why his first fight with Pac ended up in a stalemate. Whether you believe he won or not, you have to admit that he took a lot of punishment and was also damaged when the bout ended.

Lastly, I figure that JMM is much more vulnerable than MAB and EM. Pac dropped him thrice. He even was in deep trouble after MAB dropped him hard.

That would be a problem for him the next time as Pac has, as mentioned earlier, an expanded arsenal. The speed that troubled him the last time will still be there too. And Pac can go downstairs much more often now thereby giving JMM much more confusion.

Unless JMM unleashes something that I still haven't seen before, I'd say Pac by close but unanimous decision.
Click to expand...

agreed :good

PATSYS · Mar 15, 2008

I don't think Marquez is slipping.

I say both of them were right at the very prime of their careers. Marquez maybe older, but Pac has been to so much more painful wars by far.

Unless one of them gets injured, or gets cut caused by clash of heads, there should absolutely be no excuses.

Pac by KO!

C Money · Mar 15, 2008

I agree with much said in Sugar Shane's post:good

Not as much as JMM slipping though. Both looked great at the weigh and expect a great fight.

I also believe that PAC has rounded his game more. Thus JMM wont win as many rounds. Power is clearly Pac's.

Its illogical to discredit JMM. He's top notch but this PAC will bring much more this time around. If Marquez cant hurt PAC? It wont be as easy holding him at bay. Last time Marquez got nearly destroyed, credit the heart it took to absorb it. He recovered by distance and PAC tiring and being 1 dimensional.

I see both men trying to capture this moment and believe PAC will.

acb · Mar 15, 2008

Chileno606 said:

Marquez is not in his prime anymore. 34 is not prime for a small fighter, much less one thats been in wars. He is past it by a bit, as his last few fights showed. In his younger days he would hardly get hit. Its true he adopted a more aggressive fight style in a few fights, but even when he wasnt brawling he did not look like the prime JMM.
Click to expand...

And thats the truth. I don't trust Pac fans a bit (your my boy Chimba, but I understand what your doing here) who will go behind a Pac victory tonight and say he beat a prime Marquez. If you have watched him over the years, you know he is a step behind.

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