Why I think GGG is a top 15 all-time middleweight.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Apr 13, 2018.


Is Golovkin a top 15 all time great at middle weight?

  1. Yes

    55.4%
  2. No

    44.6%
  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    GGG, not top 40??? Not even Dino would agree with that, I think. You are way out there on a remote uncharted island with that statement McGrain. If someone posted that poll, it would be lopsided, and you know it.

    Other than that, you're a solid poster.

    A common theme I see of yours is you discount losses to lesser fighters? No no, that's part of the process, and GGG never lost to any lesser fighter, the others all did.

    If you have to use Robinson to make a point, it puts GGG in good company, and I think GGG would beat any of Robinson opponent at least once if they meet twice, mostly on a 2-0 sweep. As great as Robinson was, he sure gets hit a bit too much on film, and never proved it vs. some of the black fighters of the times.

    Well he is 1-1 vs Turpin.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Well if you can only count six other #1 pound for pound guys at 160, that's elite company. Point proved there. I could have mentioned that too, but it's more valuable when someone else says it. Thanks. I agree with your assessment in the end.

    I choose not to mention fringe top 10-15 picks. Instead, I'm showing why he compares with the best. While they beat better, they also lost to worse. So GGG would not have the losses they have taken, and its speculation as to if he could have beaten their best opponents. You have to balance the scales.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't care about polls, or about Dino. I know the division and i'm happy to protect all the statements i've made above.

    No, they're no discounted - as i've told you about a dozen times before - but I do treat them very differently to you.

    I'm not using Robinson to make my point - i'm using Turpin to make my point.

    Tuprin is a greater middleweight than Golovkin because he was lineal and he beat the greatest fighter ever extensively filmed to become so. That, to me, is a greater achievement than all Golovkin's Murray types, Wade types etc. Yes, to the extent where it makes the losses he suffered no bridge.

    Again, I don't say that Turpin is locked above Golovkin, just that Golovkin is not locked above Turpin.

    And that I personally prefer Turpin's achievements at middleweight, rate him higher as a middleweight.
     
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    McGrain,I don't care about polls, or about Dino. I know the division and i'm happy to protect all the statements i've made above.

    This content is protected


    No, they're no discounted - as i've told you about a dozen times before - but I do treat them very differently to you.

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    I'm not using Robinson to make my point - i'm using Turpin to make my point.

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    Tuprin is a greater middleweight than Golovkin because he was lineal and he beat the greatest fighter ever extensively filmed to become so. That, to me, is a greater achievement than all Golovkin's Murray types, Wade types etc. Yes, to the extent where it makes the losses he suffered no bridge.

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    And that I personally prefer Turpin's achievements at middleweight, rate him higher as a middleweight.

    This content is protected
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No I don't.

    It's possible, though unproven. My own argument would be that Turpin has performed to a higher level in the ring on film. This is infinitely argument but given that you have John Murray - or whoever - as the tip of the spear of your argument and I have Sugar Ray Robinson as mine, at best this is a highly arguable statement.

    But, again, I'm happy that Turpin would be the best fighter that Golovkin had beaten - but Turpin has beaten better than Golovkin, by my eye.

    No. That's preposterous. Much more than that it means you took your chance.

    Lineal - either you beat the best in the world (on paper) or you beat the other outstanding middleweight in the division by popular view. In other words, you beat the best middleweight in the world excepting yourself.

    Golovkin has never done this. I'm sorry, but this IS a barrier to his ranking, though only a slight one given his luck against Canelo.

    Silence!

    Or to put it more politely - don't talk to me about baseball.
     
  6. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    I like the part you said about his power the most because I`m slightly confused as to how hard GGG hits but third best is near the truth for me and the thing I don`t like is when people say he couldn`t punch like Hagler, I would like to know what Hagler`s KO percentage was because where his falls would be pretty close to the mark but a lot of those stoppages weren`t one punch KO`s, Hagler finished a lot of fighters of with vicious combo`s so did Tyson who stopped more opponents earlier than Hagler in his respective division, that would be another good stat, what percentage of GGG`s KO`s were before the fourth round compared to Marvin who often took a while to wear down opposition, thanks.
     
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  7. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    SRR was in bad shape when he lost to Turpin.
     
  8. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    GGG`s jab would be too much for a prime Roy, the worse thing you can do v GGG is back up, Roy was easy to trap on the ropes with the jab and GGG`s jab is far better than any Roy had to deal with, Jacobs gave GGG problems but he threw more punches than Roy would who was scared to throw v good counter punches, even someone who wasn`t very good like Griffin made Roy hesitant in therir first fight because he had the speed to counter Roy, GGG doesn`t have that kind of speed but you have to punch to keep him off and Roy would not do this and Roy didn`t know how to escape from the ropes like Canelo did, he`d just lie there with his gloves up trying to counter which is harder to do while you`re blocking, I feel Roy loses for these reasons.
     
  9. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Nunn was awful v Starling, GGG is great at getting around high guards, I saw that in a film study, GGG would of beaten Tate and Curry easily, Curry had really slowed down after he moved to middle and had already been beat by Noris by this stage, he tended to fade the more a fight went on, but Nunn was very open v Curry.
     
  10. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    None of the other middles in history faced a power punching light heavy on the level of Kov, that`s like saying Hagler should of fought Spinks and the same goes for Ward who was as skilled as Spinks and was a super middle with a decent reach, I don`t think Hagler would of stood a chance v Ward at super middle, he might of been really slow being that short and bulking up, he was shorter than Leonard who started at welter!
     
  11. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Sensationalized and spin doctored to within an inch of its life. Floyd Mayweather didn't get extra points for winning / dominating fights just because he was over 35 and neither will Golovkin. The Vanes fight will prove that it was the competition that affected his performances against the two best guys he faced.
    Your arguments are as shallow as triple Gs resume.
     
  12. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    lol!
     
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It was incredibly boring, tactical to the point of tears, but Starling was a very fine fighter.
     
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  14. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Suzie, they're still talking about the MIDDLEWIGT DIVISION.

    He has only fought at Middleweight, so far.

    Just like Monzon and Hagler and Graziano and a host of other MWs.

    If the discussion were about p4p, you might have a point.
     
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  15. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I see both sides of the debate. My eyes tell me Triple G is great or at least was/he does seem to be fading of late- which is unfortunate because he was CLEARLY avoided by everyone in the division for years. So now haters will come out of the woodwork and claim he only looked as good as he did- because of the level of fighter around him. My eyes and his amateur record tell a different story.
    On the other side their is no way to skirt the issue- the names on his resume on not top quality. His resume IS light.

    I see Triple G Landing in the top 20 I believe he could hang with anyone the version of 3 years ago. But eventually people will pick against him in fantasy matchups because he doesn’t have any great names on his ledger.

    Jacobs and Canelo are two very good wins.
    Lemieux and the rest are ok.
    It’s a nice resume but not ATG worthy.
    But that happens when you have an extensive amateur career and a rep as a destroyer in the pros.
    I hope he get at least 2 more good wins.
     
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