Why I think GGG is a top 15 all-time middleweight.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Apr 13, 2018.


Is Golovkin a top 15 all time great at middle weight?

  1. Yes

    41 vote(s)
    55.4%

  2. No

    33 vote(s)
    44.6%
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  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    He would've gotten his ass kicked.
     
    NoNeck, Apr 16, 2018
    NoNeck, Apr 16, 2018
    #61
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    22?. May I see #1 to #14?
     
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    #62
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He's in the top 15 for me, probably in the top 10. He's not really proven against top conceders, though. His fights with Jacobs and Canelo could have gone either imo. I actually gave Canelo the nod and Jacobs a draw, but I can see the argument for Golovkin winning both narrowly as well. But he hasn't really separated himself from them. Too bad it took so long for him to get those kind of fights.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 1, 2018
    Bokaj, Aug 1, 2018
    #63
  4. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I love all of the hand wringing over GGG and Canelo. A draw was a perfectly acceptable decision in that fight and GGG fans act like he was robbed. Bull****. Hes not top 15 and like McGrain Im not sure hes even top 50 in boxings deepest division. He never fought anyone until he begged Canelo to come up in weight and then couldnt assert himself over the only name fighter he ever fought. Sorry but thats not a top 15 guy at MW. You can argue he was a victim of a weak era (which I dont buy), or he was ducked (which ignores tue offers hes turned down in favor of soft touches) but none of that changes his incredibly thin resume at the highest level of the sport and greatnesses is about what youve actually accomplished not about what your fanboys think you could accomplish in a perfect fantasy world.
     
    klompton2, Aug 1, 2018
    klompton2, Aug 1, 2018
    #64
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The Canelo fight was pretty close a draw was not outrageous,I thought he had done enough for the win.
    His resume is very thin and because of that I can't put him top 15,top 40 yes.
    I'm not sure he could beat Giardello,Tiger,Lamotta,Zale,Thil,Cerdan,Lytell,Burley,Walker,Flowers,
    Steele,Apostoli,Basora,Williams,Kalambay,Nunn,Valdez,McCallum,Toney,
    JonesJnr,Hopkins,Papke,Turpin, let alone Ketchel,Greb.Monzon,Hagler, Robinson.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
    mcvey, Aug 1, 2018
    mcvey, Aug 1, 2018
    #65
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A perfectly acceptable decision? 80% of the media felt GGG won it. Only Canelo’s countryman or those tied to him in the business felt he won. The sample size was over 50 score cards. Of course you won’t even touch GGG’s age ( 36 ) when this fight happened, ang age when Hagler and Mozon retired, and Greb was deceased.

    Punch stats will show you on a round by round basis GGG won it. In fact GGG out landed Canelo in 10 of 12 rounds with one round ( the 12th ) being even!

    And please tell us if you think judge Adalaide Byrd's card of 110-118 in favor of Canleo wasn't the WORST score card of this decade in ANY major fight.

    Speculation that Canleo who would not weigh in on fight night because he was over 175 pounds was on something lingers.

    You’re not even sure he’s top 50 in the history of the division? No serious historian would buy that one. I did chat a bit with some senior IBRO members on this topic, guys who are more conservative and anti-modern fighters than you are in some cases. They agree, if there was a updated member poll, Golovkin would surely rate in the top 20 at middle weight, more than likely top 15. But hey each person is entitled to their own opinion. You can be on your “ not even sure if he’s top 50 " tiny island.
     
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    #66
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  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Canelo landed more power punches than Golovkin and the best punches and that's what count most in my book. You could give it to GGG on count of his aggression, but I can't see it as a given.

    Yes, Hagler was retired at 36, but look at the average age of the top 10 p4p when Hagler retired and the average age of it today. Golovkin might be a bit past it at 36, but 36 is not what it was 30 years ago.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 1, 2018
    Bokaj, Aug 1, 2018
    #67
  8. Mod-Mania

    Mod-Mania Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He's without doubt top 15.
     
    Mod-Mania, Aug 1, 2018
    Mod-Mania, Aug 1, 2018
    #68
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  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Hagler's last fight took place when he was 32 years old. Age him 4 years and keep him active and he's losing once or more...

    The point 36 is not what 36 was years ago deserves its own thread! My take , Fitzsimmons and Moore were great a age 36 with a ton of fights under their belts. If a fighter takes care of himself, and stays active I don't see 36 today being very different from 36 decades ago.

    Beatings taken, weight gains, unhealthy eating, drugs, and inactivity can age a fighter as much or more than 1 calendar year can.

    Judges score at ring side, which can be difficult to see clearly landed body shots or counters, which was Canelo's best stuff that night. 8-4 for GGG, 7-4-1, or 7-5 for GGG are fine cards. I can't find six rounds for Canelo, and I've seen the fight more than once.
     
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    #69
  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But if you look at the average age of the top fighters it's clear that it is.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 1, 2018
    Bokaj, Aug 1, 2018
    #70
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    If GGG defeats Canelo, Saunders and charlo...he moves into top 5-10 status all time

    Right now I have him at # 15
     
    SuzieQ49, Aug 1, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Aug 1, 2018
    #71
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if Canelo beat him,he is coming ,Golovkin is going.imo
     
    mcvey, Aug 1, 2018
    mcvey, Aug 1, 2018
    #72
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    The two most common scores were 114-114 and and 116-112 GGG in the media if I remember correctly. A draw is therefore is fine. I had Canelo winning. The HBO cheerleading may have also held some influence.
     
    NoNeck, Aug 1, 2018
    NoNeck, Aug 1, 2018
    #73
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I think GGG wins this time. De La Hoya knows he can't pull the same crap twice with the judges twice and remain credible.

    GGG is going into the second match thinking he won, but was robbed, and also probably thinks Canelo was on something in the first fight and won't be as strong this time around. The motivation and the mental edge is his.

    If GGG's trainer Sanchez is any good, he tells him not to square up with Canleo in the corner, rather to move just a bit to his left or right to limit the counter before firing his shots. Either that or fire away from the extreme outside, leaving a boring Canelo doing nothing.

    Canelo's strategy in the first fight was to cover up and counter, as he was incapable of out jabbing GGG and did not want to go toe to toe.
     
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    #74
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Who told you that? Not True. Here were the scored given by the media. Also all three judges gave Canelo rounds 10, 11, and 12...more catch BS math.




    OFFICIAL CARDS
    Dave Moretti --------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Don Trella -----------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Adelaide Byrd -------------------------------> 118-110 Canelo

    ****************************************************

    Teddy Atlas --------------------------------> 118-110 GGG
    Unnamed boxing site #1 ------------------> 118-110 GGG
    Jeff Powell (UK Daily Mail) ----------------> 118-111 GGG
    Kelly Pavlik ---------------------------------> 117-111 GGG
    Dave Allen ----------------------------------> 117-111 GGG
    Mookie Alexander (Bloody Elbow) --------> 117-111 GGG
    Brian Campbell (CBS) ---------------------> 117-111 GGG
    Jack Rathborn (Mirror UK) ----------------> 117-111 GGG
    Harold Lederman (HBO) ------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Devon Alexander --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Dan Rafael (ESPN) ------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Al Bernstein -------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Bryan Graham (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-112 GGG
    Gareth Davies (UK Telegraph) -----------> 116-112 GGG
    Steve Bunce (BoxNation) ----------------> 116-112 GGG
    Tom Loeffler ------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Sergio Martinez ---------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Amir Khan ---------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Matthew Macklin --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Steve Lillis (BoxNation) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Bob Velin (USA Today) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Lyle Fitzsimmons (CBS) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Kevin McRae (Bleacher Report) -----------> 116-112 GGG
    Shaun Al-Shatti (MMA Fighting) ----------> 116-112 GGG
    Ryan Frederick (Wrestling Observer) ----> 116-112 GGG
    Patrick Stumberg (MMA Mania) ----------> 116-112 GGG
    Michael Woods (Ring) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Nigel Collins (ESPN) ----------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Cliff Rold ----------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Bad Left Hook Writer #2 -----------------> 116-112 GGG
    John A. MacDonald (Boxing Monthly) ---> 116-112 GGG
    Ron Lewis (The Times) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Daniel Cormier (UFC) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Dardan Zenunaj --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Kevin Mitchell (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-113 GGG
    Josh Taylor --------------------------------> 116-113 GGG
    Joshua Bautsi -----------------------------> 116-113 GGG
    Matt Christie (Boxing News) -------------> 116-113 GGG
    Barry Jones (BoxNation) -----------------> 116-113 GGG
    Adam Booth -------------------------------> 116-114 GGG
    Jordan Breen (Sherdog) ------------------> 115-112 GGG
    Caleb Truax -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Kevin Iole (Yahoo) ------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Gary Locket -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Will Esco (Bad Left Hook) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
    Phil Murphy (ESPN) -----------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Mike Harris (SI) ---------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Paul Fontaine (Wrestling Observer) ------> 115-113 GGG
    MMA Brazil ---------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Sean Sheehan (Severe MMA) -------------> 115-113 GGG
    Rob Tatum (Combat Press) ----------------> 115-113 GGG
    Patrick Wyman (Bleacher Report) ---------> 115-113 GGG
    Chavez Jr -----------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Juan Manuel Marquez ----------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Joel Diaz ------------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Marc Livitz (SecondsOut) ------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Stephen A. Smith (ESPN) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
    Graham Houston (Boxing Monthly) -------> 115-113 GGG
    Ed Robinson (Sky Sports) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
    Unnamed boxing site #2 ------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Tom Gray (Ring) ---------------------------> 115-114 GGG
    Max Kellerman -----------------------------> Golovkin
    Lennox Lewis ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Shane Mosley ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Austin Trout --------------------------------> Golovkin
    Paulie Malignaggi --------------------------> Golovkin
    Enzo Macarenelli ---------------------------> Golovkin
    Scott Cardle --------------------------------> Golvokin
    Terence Crawford ---------------------------> Golovkin
    Reece Bellotti ------------------------------> Golvokin
    Liam Smith ---------------------------------> Golovkin
    Peter Quillin --------------------------------> Golovkin
    Liam Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Ohara Davies -------------------------------> Golovkin
    Luke Campbell -----------------------------> Golovkin
    Dave Coldwell ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Badou Jack ---------------------------------> Golovkin
    Kevin Kelly (boxer) -------------------------> Golovkin
    Steve Kim -----------------------------------> Golovkin
    Doug Fischer --------------------------------> Golovkin
    Ring TV guy (name?) ----------------------> Golvokin
    Cornelius Bundrage ------------------------> Golovkin
    Gabriel Rosado ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Kal Yafai -------------------------------------> Golovkin
    Julian Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Vanes Martirosyan --------------------------> Golovkin
    Michael Montero ----------------------------> Golovkin
    James Brady (SB Nation) ------------------> Golovkin
    Joe Rogan (UFC) ----------------------------> Golovkin
    Jim Rome (sports broadcaster) ------------> Golovkin
    Kovalev -------------------------------------> Golvokin
    Danny Jacobs -------------------------------> Golovkin
    Murat Gassiev ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Johnny Nelson ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Rosie Perez ---------------------------------> Golovkin
    Lou DiBella ---------------------------------> Golovkin
    Tony Jeffries --------------------------------> Golovkin
    Martin Samuel (UK Daily Mail) -------------> Golovkin
    Joseph Parker ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Bob Arum ----------------------------------> Golovkin
    Fernando Schwarz (Fox Sports Mexico) --> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 1 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 2 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 3 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 4 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 5 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 6 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 7 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Marcos Villegas (Fight Hub) --------------> Golovkin
    Ana Julaton --------------------------------> Golovkin
    John Buccigross (ESPN) -------------------> Golovkin
    Nonito Donaire -----------------------------> Golovkin
    Leo Santa Cruz ----------------------------> Golovkin
    Fernando Vargas ---------------------------> Golovkin
    Michael Bisping (UFC) ---------------------> Golovkin
    Narhan Gorman ---------------------------> Golovkin
    Lance Pugmire (LA Times) ----------------> 114-114 Draw
    Chris Mannix (Yahoo) ---------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Associated Press --------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Kenny Porter ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Roy Jones ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Peter Fury ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Tommy Hearns ----------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Joe Cortez ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Liam Happe (Yahoo Sport UK) -----------> 114-114 Draw
    Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News) ---> 114-114 Draw
    Gilbert Manzano (Denver Post) -----------> 114-114 Draw
    Ben Thompson (Fight Hype) -------------> 114-114 Draw
    Brian Kenny (MLB Network) -------------> 114-114 Draw
    Eric Rasken (HBO) -----------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Danny Flexen (British Boxers) -----------> 114-114 Draw
    Kieran Mulvaney (HBO) ------------------> 114-114 Draw
    David Greisman (former writer) ---------> 114-114 Draw
    George Foreman --------------------------> 114-114 Draw (supposedly said)
    Robert Garcia ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Glen McCrory ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Danny Howard (Boxing Tribune) ---------> 115-114 Canelo
    Bernardo Osuna (ESPN Deportes) --------> 115-114 Canelo
    De La Hoya --------------------------------> 115-113 Canelo ( canelo's promoter )
    Bernard Hopkins --------------------------> 115-113 Canelo ( Connected to Canleo via business )
    Gilbert Mendoza (President of WBA) -----> 115-113 Canelo
    Coach Anthony ----------------------------> 116-112 Canelo
    Erik Morales -------------------------------> 117-111 Canelo (think he said; see video page 3) ( His countryman )
    Chavez Sr ---------------------------------> Canelo ( His countryman )
    Sergio Mora -------------------------------> Canelo ( His countryman, I think )
     
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    Mendoza, Aug 1, 2018
    #75
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