Why is Aaron Pryor so highly rated ?

[QUOTE="Unforgiven, post: 19271130, member: 2761"

The thing is, Ray Leonard is responsible for most of that himself. He has stated many times he saw Hagler had slowed a lot against Mugabi and decided then that he was going to face him. Almost everything his critics on those details say generally, Leonard has said the same thing.

The press conference/retirement event thing in 1982 happened, and Leonard had been flirting with suggestions of a Hagler fight throughout 1982. I don't think it matters either way. He teased Hagler about a superfight "that will never happen" but it's not a duck, of course.[/QUOTE]

Nah, he said that he felt he could beat Hagler after the Mugabi fight, but that he didn’t necessarily think that Marvin had declined. And absolutely nothing about waiting him out.

 

Not taking every reslistic bout is not a duck. By that definition everyone is ducking. It is not by any stretch unreslistic for, say, Spence to go up and face the winner of Golovkin-Canelol, but failing to do so will not be a duck.

A duck is not defending your title against the best. That's it. A coked up, stupid press conference doesn't change this fact.

Brook isn't a MW, Leonard wasn't a JMW in 1982. Not that it matters.

 

Nah, he said that he felt he could beat Hagler after the Mugabi fight, but that he didn’t necessarily think that Marvin had declined. And absolutely nothing about waiting him out.[/QUOTE]

Huh? He's basically told anybody who would listen that he watched the Mugabi fight and VISIBLY NOTICED that Marvin had slowed down. He most certainly said he noticed him slipping at the mugabi fight... He further reinforces this point by mentioning that Duran told SRL that he could take Marvin now since he's slowed down and SRL agreed. I'm not sure why you're saying he never mentions Hagler had slowed down and this was now the right time. He absolutely said that.

 

Pryor had never beaten anyone as good as Bonds you dingleberry so explain why again a small 140lb fight who had never beaten a ranked 135 or 147 fighter was worth more than 500K? Normally fighters earn fights by beating ranked fighters....Pryor never did he just whined about being ducked so legally ******ed fans too could cry as well with enough crying he hoped he could get paid.....when a man is offered his worth to fight and he turns it down he is chicken.....Yes was a serious offer Corky! Pryor chickened out

 

SRL fought Duran, Benitez, Hearns, Kalule, Hagler and Lalonde but feared Pryor......meh makes perfect sense in a crackhouse lololol

 

He was a standout in a poor division, and a pretty good fighter. I do think he gets too much credit for beating an Arguello who was by then a little creaky and immobile and a Cervantes who was 186 years old. Still, Cervantes was the champ, so some credit must be given.

Still, not THAT much.

 

You're so obsessed with the word "duck", it's starting to make me hanker for a Chinese Takeout.

And, you're beginning to appear a tad irrational. A secret retirement party takes planning. It wasn't an off-the-cuff comment at a press conference. It was by design.

I couldn't speak to whether or not Leonard was intoxicated, at the time of the statement. Either way, I doubt he was under the influence of drugs during the whole preparation, through to the plan's execution.

Again, Leonard was the Ring Champion at both Welterweight and Light Middleweight until he vacated the latter in June 1982, retiring later that same year. This is on record. I can't quite understand why you're attempting to dispute the fact.

 

You know full well, of course, that I never disputed Leonard held a tile at JMW. So stop with the silliness, will you.

Duck was the word used, and not by me. If you want to get away from that term, then just say "yes, anyone saying that Leonard was ducking Hagler is an idiot" and then we can let it go.

And you can think that press conference was a silly move, it was, but not for any rational mind was it ever a requirement for Leonard to go up two divisions from the one he was unified champion in. Or one divison from the one had had one fight and he also was Ring champion in. Stupid press conference or no.

 

Alexis Arguello was absolutely terrific in a grueling bout when he fought Aaron Pryor for the first time. However, the bout probably took a lot out of him because he seemed to be a shell of his former self when facing Pryor for the second time.

In addition to being extremely aggressive, Pryor had a big heart, tremendous stamina, lots of strength and a very high work rate. Pryor was fairly easy to hit and was far from being fundamentally sound when it came to his boxing skills. Yet he had a highly effective, baffling boxing style.

As I remember, Pryor reportedly had a tough time getting bouts at the beginning of his career as a professional boxer. It appears that Pryor could have fought as a lightweight, but he had more opportunities as a junior welterweight. I think that Pryor was too small to fight the best welterweights of his time, especially Thomas Hearns or Sugar Ray Leonard.

Since Howard Davis beat Pryor in the amateurs and went on to win a gold medal in the 1976 Olympics, I found it interesting that Pryor had far more success than Davis in the professional ranks. Of course, I feel that Pryor would have been a terrible matchup for Davis in bouts scheduled for ten or more rounds. Pryor's work rate, stamina, aggressiveness and strength would be far too much for Davis.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Huh? He's basically told anybody who would listen that he watched the Mugabi fight and VISIBLY NOTICED that Marvin had slowed down. He most certainly said he noticed him slipping at the mugabi fight... He further reinforces this point by mentioning that Duran told SRL that he could take Marvin now since he's slowed down and SRL agreed. I'm not sure why you're saying he never mentions Hagler had slowed down and this was now the right time. He absolutely said that.[/QUOTE]

In his autobiography he writes this (p. 255): "...there were some who had observed signs of Hagler's decline in the fight with Mugabi. I did not necessarily subscribe to that point of view..."

What I can see of what Duran said to him i simply: "You box him, you beat him." (p. 231). Nothing about any decline. And that was directly after Duran's won fight with Hagler, in 1983.

 

It was an event. Call it a press-conference; fundraiser; call it "An Evening with Sugar Ray Leonard".

Whatever one calls it... ...it took planning.

No one said it was required for Leonard to fight Hagler and him not fighting Hagler then wasn't a duck.

It was, however, a fight that could have been made earlier than when it did finally happen. Leonard and his team had clearly contemplated it and, for some reason, Leonard decided to publicly air his decision not to.

I haven't referred to it as a silly move. This was a conscious decision and obviously played to an anticipation that he would make the bout happen. It really is that simple.

 

But it was silly move. It accomplished nothing except making him look silly. Hence, a silly move.

Yes, he could have met Hagler sooner. He could have rematched Hearns sooner. Perhaps there was also a window even for a rematch with Benitez. As with every career, there are "could of:s", even for such a spectacular career as his.

But the simple fact is that he met clearly better fighters at his best weight than Marvin did at his best weight, and yet he moved on to even greater challenges. The risks he took widely exceeds those Hagler took.

That's the cold facts. But too many tend to be more into a tough glare and chiseled muscles than facts, sadly enough.

Hagler took on Leonard's Pryor. Leonard took on Hagler's Spinks. That is all that needs to be said really, and with that I'm through derailing this thread.

 

I don't know about you derailing the thread, but you have just indulged in a spectacular piece of overstatement.

 

Pryor was an exceptional talent. Speed. stamina, power, killer instinct. His devastation of Cervantes was frightening .. he was not the most focused and drowned early in drugs. He was really a lightweight that moved up to `135 because no one would fight him .. a hell of a fighter.

 

I think he passes the eye test for flair and his style and character captured the imagination, regardless of any technical flaws he may have carried. I can't say I recall ever seeing him appear on any Pound-for-Pound Greats Lists that I have scanned but I do see him feature on ATG Light Welterweight listings, with clockwork consistency.

This is perhaps no surprise, since Light Welterweights, with elite wins on their ledger, probably do not add up to an exceptionally deep group. I'm not saying there aren't a heap of notable Light Welterweights; just that exceptional title reigns with contests between recognizable talents are, I am guessing, quite slim overall.

So, with Cervantes and Arguello x2 on his ledger, Pryor finds his way into the Top-10 Lists along with Canzoneri, Ross, Cervantes, Loi, Benitez, Loche, Tzsyu and Chavez, etc. etc.

As well as the above, Pryor most likely fares well in the minds of those considering his potential Head-to Head prowess.