Why is Ali showered with the term " The Greatest"

He will always be the Louisville Lip to me, that was a much better nickname. Same as Hitman became the common nickname of Hearns, but even Tommy preferred the better Motor City Cobra.

As long as you do not call him Clay, I do not think Ali minded being called the Louisville Lip.

 

Holmes makes my top 3/4 HWTs of all time but Ali is no1.

H2H, it would be a good fight but prime Ali takes a UD over him IMO.... check out the Williams, Terrell, Folley, Chuvalo & Patterson fights of prime Ali if you havent seen them, he dominates very good fighters, his resume shits all over Larry`s & I like Holmes too but facts are facts.

:good

 

I agree with everything here, especially the highlighted part.

 

:-( :verysad :rofl atsch :nut :silly

 

Is the OP Larry Holmes?

I'll put it simply; he called himself the Greatest. Nobody else porclaimed him that. He is the self-proclaimed Greatest of All Time.

 

It's best just not to respond. People know that he is the greatest HW of all time. They do it to get a reaction out of people.

 

Say no more

 

He beat the man, Foreman, that destroyed Eddie Futch's men, Frazier and Norton, inside two rounds, that gave him the toughest fights of his career.

 

Ali, imo, has a great point when he said that even if he lost to some of the ATG HW champions, he still would have been the more beautiful boxer, and more skilled boxer over all.

Also, his great self-promotion, was so acute that he could have convinced anyone that he was the greatest HW of all time, even if they never seen him fight.

Third, his resume speaks for its self: Liston, Patterson, Moore, Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Cooper, Shavers, the list goes on and on---compare that to Joe Louis whose best or most well known opponents were Schmeling, Braddock, Lewis, Baer, Carnera and Sharkey, those he defeated, but lucked out on Charles and Marciano.

Last but not least, how many HW contenders and champions past and present can you honestly name who would have been a favorite and a sure bet to have defeated a prime Ali, or come out the victor in a series? The answer? Maybe one or two, and those are still what if's.

 

Best Ali vs best Holmes Ali wins, Clay became a favorite when he became Ali, the media loved the anti government Ali, his popularity helped in some of the out comes in fights, not to mention he was great in front of the cameras the guy knew how to sell himself.

 

Had the whole exile thing not happened, it's hard to grasp, but we'd most likely not even be suggesting Louis as a challenger for the GOAT spot. His prime years were taken away, and I don't envision an active peak Ali ever losing to Frazier.

 

I do. Outside of George Chuvalo, the prime Ali never quite faced a man who could give Ali pressure. Mildenberger's lefts threw Ali off for eleven rounds---and Ali at the time was careless from time to time [the first Cooper fight].

Prime Joe Frazier and prime Ali, who had yet to face adversity, would have been a remarkable match up. While Ali was sharper, faster, he also lacked the toughness, the real heart of a fighter, that came out only until after 1970. I don't see it being any more easier for Ali in his prime against Frazier, than it was between the trilogy they had throughout 1971-1975.

 

Ali could dance for 15 rounds pre-exile, and he was slightly faster, hand and foot. It would just make it even harder for Joe to find Ali, who was only effective on the inside.

I think Ali wins a close but clear decision if we see Cassius Clay fighting Joe Frazier, as opposed to the inactive and rusty Ali of the 70s.

Certainly no doubt in my mind that Ali's standing would be better among the hardcore crowd had the exile never took place.

 

I don't think Ali was as ring worn as people made him out to be.

He defeated #2 ranked Jerry Quarry rather easily, and only had problems with Bonavena in his second bout back, but hell, Bonavena gave Frazier hell two times, so it's nothing to be ashamed about one iota anyways.

I rewatch the FOTC between Frazier/Ali from time to time, and imo, the fight was wider than alot of people suggest or what the score cards read. Frazier had Ali hurt and was toying with him from round 10 onwards, with Frazier taunting Ali now and then. Eddie Futch developed the perfect game plan against Ali---saying that Ali never changed his style, and wouldn't adopt new tricks just for one fight, and therein lyed his downfall.

Futch knew if Ali threw a jab, Joe would get on the inside, and it would force Ali to throw an uppercut, which left him wide open for the left hook Joe's so famous for.

Sure, go on that it was Ali's ring rust that cost him, but imo, it was because Ali wasn't exactly altogether as a fighter, he wasn't a complete boxer, he was elusive and fast, but lacked great defense---he has fast hands, but he kept his guard down too low and didn't put weight into his punches, he wasn't a solid boxer---these weaknesses were exploited not because of inactivity, but because of styles and a game plan---Futch created the perfect one for Joe's swarming style, and he did it as well for Norton's counter punching style, both of which did not suit Ali one iota when he fought them the first time.

He [Ali] never saw it coming. Was only after these humiliating losses, that he began sharpening up on the defense, started relying on conditioning more so than speed so he could take more punishment and be able to come back from the long haul, and after 1974 the rope a dope became his trade mark.

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As for his exile, had it never taken place, one thing is for certain, he wouldn't have made it into the late 1970's as world champion had he never been exiled from boxing. He would have burned out sooner. Also, who, really, was out there to challenge him? Leotis Martin? Old Sonny Liston? Thad Spencer? Tony Doyle? I mean come on now! There was no "great fight" worth missing.

 

Common sense tells me when a fighter hasn't fought much in 3 years, it will tell when fighting the best fighter in the world.

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Ali looked awesome for the opening 2 rounds with Quarry, but then his work rate started drop and so did his landing percentage. He was clearly every bit as good as he was, he just couldn't sustain it for 15 rounds like when he could pre-exile. I think this would have became apparent had the fight not been stopped on a cut.

Fight of the century was a very close fight, but claiming an Ali victory is almost as silly as claiming a victory for Frazier in the rematch. Needless to say, people have tried to make that argument. I don't understand it, mind. Anyhow, Frazier fought a great fight against Ali, but who was winning the fight early on? It was Ali, and then Frazier was better equipped to go the 15 rounds, although how Ali got up from the knockdown in round 15, I will never know. That was probably more astonishing than anything else that happened that night. Good performance by Frazier, against a lesser version of Ali than what we saw previously in my judgement.

Ali gave a lot of rounds away in that fight by play acting, and this was probably due to trying to conserve energy. He'd have not needed to do that in his prime, but like I say, I take nothing away from Frazier. He fought a great fight, but I don't rate Ali of the 70s as high as the one of the 60s.

Ali's style of defense was to stay on the outside and work behind the jab. This was sustained for 15 rounds on a consistant basis before he was inactive for three years. Ali was not prepared to take on a Joe Frazier after only having two fights back. He looked like **** against Bonavena, and was fortunate to get the stoppage late. Sure, Ali was never a defensive genius, but his legs were not what they were and I think this tells in the footage.

Who said anything about mega fights he missed out on? I'm saying staying active would have made him better equipped for taking on the up and coming Joe Frazier. This shouldnt' be disputed by anybody, it's common sense. Likewise, we would have seen more Cleveland Williams like performances. Did the exile make him a terribly faded version of what he once was? No, not really. But no way did it help him. :verysad

I think Pre-exile Ali wins a clear decision over Joe Frazier, and that isn't designed to discredit anybody, I call it how I see it.