Why is Dempsey vs Firpo highly edited film?

In order for a fair assessment to be reached it is considered necessary to hear and evaluate differing perspectives . That's why courts of justice have witnesses provide testimony for both sides.

 

All of us make bad arguments now and then, but this could be the worst,

the narrator is, I think, Norman Rose, and this film is I think from The Legendary Champions (1968).

It is interesting what the script says, but hardly proof of anything.

The original film was silent. Sound films started in 1926, although Lee DeForest did do some experimental sound films earlier. He didn't film Dempsey-Firpo though.

 

Choosing outliers consistently as you do speak of someone intent on disruption not a fair and balanced perspective.

 

The narration was added later, as a voice over do you actually understand that!

Much Ado About Nothing!

 

I think the most important part of the whole footage, whether edited, cut, not edited, blah, blah, blah, proves ... since there is no punch in boxing where you leave your glove on your opponents face for 3 seconds, then extend you arm further until you push your opponent out of the ring.. That it was so blatantly a PUSH .. The "punch" comes from a 90 degree angle. the "push" comes the facts stated above ... 2 totally separate actions !!! .. and the " edited film discussion" becomes mute..

 

Again it is very possible that push was more of a punch in real life. These old silient era films absolutely distort reality or make it difficult to see reality.

 

We should get something clear.

I never said and am not maintaining that Dempsey was not pushed back toward the ring or even that he might not have been "helped" depending on definition. What kind of violation of the rules that would be remains an open question, though.

I am only saying that the film does not appear to have been edited at this point and that Dempsey got back in the ring in about five seconds.

"a narrator isn't full proof,"

or actually any proof at all. We would have to know what research was done and where the scriptwriter got his information. After all, the film doesn't prove he was helped. That evidence has to come from somewhere else. We don't know if the filmmakers were more interested in being accurate, or in being dramatic.

 

This could actually be right. No other punch looks anything like a push including the right hands just seconds before but suddenly we have something looking very much like one. Dempsey could well have been pushed/fouled out of the ring and all bets are off. Maybe he should have been given recovery time.

 

Our resident Jack Dempsey expert, mcvey, has already addressed this.

In the wake of the assistance Dempsey had received getting back in the ring,which he felt should have prompted Dempsey's dsq Nat Fleischer led a campaign to have a clarification of the rules concerning boxer being knocked out of the ring.
The existing rules were somewhat ambiguous;ie

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The rule was re-worded to.
"Any boxer who is knocked out of the ring is required to return within ten seconds under his own power"
Four years to the month later Dempsey had Tunney on the floor and paid the price for not going to a neutral corner,

So with no mention of aid or assistance in the rules at that time it's a non entity. Dempsey was also counted as if it was a kd. He was out of the ring for 6 seconds in an obviously uncut film. Irregardless if one believes the somewhat dubious claim he was back on his feet by 9 (i'd believe shorter) everything is still above board.

Storm in a teacup.

 

"Any boxer who is knocked out of the ring is required to return within ten seconds under his own power."

Actually, had this been the rule during this fight, I think Dempsey passed it. He was knocked into men sitting next to the ring. What could they do but catch him? He clearly scrambles back into the ring under his own power.

Jeffries in his second knockdown against Johnson is in contrast a case in which the fighter did not make it back under his own power. He was lifted up. But that is moot because the fight quickly ended anyway.

 

I don't know what the big deal is, its all right on you tube,, the second Dempsey landed outside the ring. He started doing a sit up and got the hell back in the ring and on his feet in all! About 5 seconds.

 

This is interesting and absolutely correct. I mispoke when I said that the fighter has to return under his own power. Without thinking I looked at a version of the rules that was post 1923. That rule was amended after that. The rule in effect from 1920 until after the Firpo fight was: "If a contestant who has been knocked or who has fallen out of the ring during a contest fails to return immediately the referee may count him out as if he were "down."

So no argument.

 

Well we are about at the "end thread" stage now then. Let the fat lady sing........