Why is Dempsey vs Firpo highly edited film?

mcvey · Sep 8, 2017

edward morbius said: ↑

"Sorry EM you're getting mixed up"

No. My reply was to Mendoza retrograding to Flynn knocking Dempsey down several times and Bernie throwing in the towel, neither of which happened.

Anything you posted at any time was not part of my reply.
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Oh sorry ,it's me who is mixed up!lol

Perry · Sep 8, 2017

Tunney wrote he had great difficulty hitting Dempsey on the button. He tucked his chin and was constantly moving his head.

Mendoza · Sep 8, 2017

edward morbius said: ↑

"Flynn had Dempsey down 3 times"

No. Dempsey went down once and was counted out according to ALL the ringside reports. Only Dempsey himself in his various memoirs came up with the three (or I think actually four) knockdown scenarios. The towel getting tossed into the ring also did not happen. Dempsey was counted out about 20 seconds into the fight.

As for your point about Dempsey's defense, I think it worth discussion.
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Ed,

Yes. In his three autobiographies, Dempsey said he was down several times and his brother, who was working as his second, stopped the fight too quickly. So who's word are you going to take, Dempsey's or someone else?

Why is are there so many stories and excuses about his career, what happened in the ring, and who he did not fight?

Dempsey might be telling a fib about being floored three times. Hard to say. Maybe he was embarrassed the whole thing with the count took 20 seconds. Shades of Jimmy Thunder vs Crawford Grimsley.

Either way, the loss is a black mark on his record. I think most of us ( Not McVey ) see it this way.

As for Dempsey's defense, he's rather hittable on film, and that's saying something since his opponents feared his power and he could beat just about anyone he fought to the punch.

Mendoza · Sep 8, 2017

mcvey said: ↑

I agree ,I don't think anything has been edited John Thomas and others have pointed out the continuity of the action,the referee's arm going up and down, and Dempsey returning to the ring .Dempsey was back in the ring on the count of 3 and on his feet, in fighting stance at 4. This has been a worthwhile debate ,[even though the originator of it didn't get the result he expected or desired.]
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To be factually correct, it took some time for the ref to pick up the count. We only saw three waves of his hand, yet six seconds have passed on you tube film and on anyone's watch from the exit of the ring to the entrance, so it was not just three seconds! Let's see if you can admit an easy mistake...you made more than one here so far in this thread alone.

I would not put it past editing of the film to make Dempsey appear out of the ring less than he actually was either.

Mendoza · Sep 8, 2017

Mr.DagoWop said: ↑

I think if Tunney were here today he would certainly disagree with you. In fact he did while he was still alive!
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Tunney does not need to be alive, the films show he had his way with Dempsey and likely would have stopped him had the fight been 15 rounds as opposed to 10.

I do not see Tunney missing often vs Dempsey, do you or anyone else here?

Tunney won 19 of the 20 rounds in both fights, I tend to out he felt Dempsey hard to catch.

mcvey · Sep 8, 2017

Mendoza said: ↑

Ed,

Yes. In his three autobiographies, Dempsey said he was down several times and his brother, who was working as his second, stopped the fight too quickly. So who's word are you going to take, Dempsey's or someone else?

Why is are there so many stories and excuses about his career, what happened in the ring, and who he did not fight?

Dempsey might be telling a fib about being floored three times. Hard to say. Maybe he was embarrassed the whole thing with the count took 20 seconds. Shades of Jimmy Thunder vs Crawford Grimsley.

Either way, the loss is a black mark on his record. I think most of us ( Not McVey ) see it this way.

As for Dempsey's defense, he's rather hittable on film, and that's saying something since his opponents feared his power and he could beat just about anyone he fought to the punch.
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To be factually correct the title of the thread is highly contentious not to say unproven!

Two autobiographies.

If you think Dempsey losing to Flynn at that stage of his career is a black mark on his record why don't you have a vote on it and see who agrees with you?

mcvey · Sep 8, 2017

Mendoza said: ↑

Tunney does not need to be alive, the films show he had his way with Dempsey and likely would have stopped him had the fight been 15 rounds as opposed to 10.

I do not see Tunney missing often vs Dempsey, do you or anyone else here?

Tunney won 19 of the 20 rounds in both fights, I tend to out he felt Dempsey hard to catch.
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Tunney begged to differ .I'll take his opinion over yours.

mcvey · Sep 8, 2017

Mendoza said: ↑

To be factually correct, it took some time for the ref to pick up the count. We only saw three waves of his hand, yet six seconds have passed on you tube film and on anyone's watch from the exit of the ring to the entrance, so it was not just three seconds! Let's see if you can admit an easy mistake...you made more than one here so far in this thread alone.

I would not put it past editing of the film to make Dempsey appear out of the ring less than he actually was either.
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Dempsey was back in the ring at the count of 3, and back on his feet at 4 not that it matters one iota. What would be the motive for shaving few seconds off Dempsey's time out of the ring?
Sorry Rain Man your thread didn't go according to plan .

"The best laid plans of Mice and Mendoza often go astray".

Radrook · Sep 8, 2017

edward morbius said: ↑

McVey

One thing I have to say about his thread. A few days ago I would have considered that the Dempsey-Firpo film was edited at the point in which Dempsey went out of the ring and scrambled back. Now I am pretty certain that it wasn't edited at that point and that Dempsey actually got back into the ring rather quickly, in about 5 seconds.

Also, thanks largely to your input, I tend now to dismiss the idea that the referee should have DQ'd Dempsey for being "helped" back into the ring.
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If the fight commentator himself who was there said that Dempsey was helped back into the ring-why do you insist on doubting it?

klompton2 · Sep 8, 2017

This debate has had a fork sticking out of it for a while now...

Mr.DagoWop · Sep 8, 2017

Mendoza said: ↑

Tunney does not need to be alive, the films show he had his way with Dempsey and likely would have stopped him had the fight been 15 rounds as opposed to 10.

I do not see Tunney missing often vs Dempsey, do you or anyone else here?

Tunney won 19 of the 20 rounds in both fights, I tend to out he felt Dempsey hard to catch.
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Yeah I do see Tunney missing often. In fact one of the most popular clips of Dempsey's defense is him slipping an 8 punch combo from Tunney.

Tunney said himself that Dempsey was hard to hit. I guess you know more than Tunney now...

Radrook · Sep 8, 2017

Perry said: ↑

Dempsey landed just outside the ring. He did not fall to the floor but instead on top of typewriters which sat upon tables directly around the ring. So a relatively easy for a conscious trained athlete to grab the ropes and pull themselves directly back into the ring. Should not take more than a few seconds.
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That's not what he himself said happened nor did the commentator describe it the way you WISH it had happened.

Here at approx 3:00 of the video he is quoted as saying that if he had not been helped by newsreporters he would not have been able to make it back into the ring.

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That constitutes a violation of rules requiring either a no contest or a loss.
Had it happened to Dempsey in Argentina then the USA press would have called it unfair.

mcvey · Sep 8, 2017

Radrook said: ↑

If the fight commentator himself who was there said that Dempsey was helped back into the ring-why do you insist on doubting it?
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The commentator was added later. Since there was no provision for a boxer being outside the ring whether Dempsey was helped back in the ring or not isnt the crux of it ,what is important is did he get back before the final count was reached? The answer to which is yes ,with 6 seconds to spare!

mcvey · Sep 8, 2017

klompton2 said: ↑

This debate has had a fork sticking out of it for a while now...
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Oh my yes!

Mr.DagoWop · Sep 8, 2017

Radrook said: ↑

That's not what he himself said happened nor did the commentator describe it the way you WISH it had happened.

Here at approx 3:00 of the video he is quoted as saying that if he had not been helped by newsreporters he would not have been able to make it back into the ring.

This content is protected

That constitutes a violation of rules requiring either a no contest or a loss.
Had it happened to Dempsey in Argentina then the USA press would have called it unfair.
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Reported for trolling.

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