Why is Hearns rated on ATG list that DLH is absent from?

In my eyes I revere DLH to that regard. He fought the best, was never dominated. Only ever stopped once by a ATG and hall of famer wo dwarfed him. Other than that in all his losses the fight could have easily went in his favor, especially the Trinidad fight and the 2nd Mosley fights(2 fights I had DLH winning by 2 rounds). He always held his own and never shyed away from the best. ODLH is an ATG.

As far as their 2nd tier competition they are close....
ODLH: John-John Molina, Ike Quartey, Fernando Vargas, Rafael Ruelas, and Miguel Angel Gonzalez all former champions.


Hearns: Dennis Andries, Virgil Hill, Michael Olajide, Pipino Cuevas, and Bruce Curry all title challenger and champions but ODLH had the edge 2nd tier.

 

Hearns WOULD blow DLH out at 147. DLH is the most overrated fighter ever, he's technically gifted and was fast with great timing, but he lacked other intangibles and always came up short against a lower class of fighter than the ones Hearns lost to.

DLH could have easily lost to a shot Pea and Quartey, Pea is in the class of Leonard for example, but Ike is 2 steps down IMO.

Hearns also had greater longevity, is far superior H2H and is just an all around better fighter.

Hearns and DLH aren't comparable, not in the slightest. DLH can be considered an ATG, but barely.

 

Exactly, why is the Hill win overlooked? Was at LHW, against Hill, who was an elite level LHW. Hearns started at WW, DLH could have never dreamed of defeating an elite MW that late in his career for example.

Hell, he couldn't even beat Sturm clearly, couldn't come up to the plate against Floyd with TONS of stipulations that favoured him, such as tiny ring and type of gloves, PROBABLY even some contractual elements that made Floyd hold himself back some.:rofl

I am no DLH hater, but how he is rated so highly is just absurd.

 

the real question is why is duran on ATG lists and oscar isn't and Oscar has beaten more ATG's

duran was 1-4 against ATG and had 12 title Defenses in his career

Hoya was 2-6 against ATG and had over 17 title defenses

Hearns 2-4 against ATG and 8 title defenses

 

Ah, Carlito, you disgusting ****.

DLH is on MOST people's top 50 ATG list. If he's going to be in there, I'd say he's top 75 at MAXIMUM.

The fact that he's top 50 on most and on some he's even top 30, which is just unbelievable, shows how overrated DLH is in general. Hearns however is damn well a lock for the top 25, DLH doesn't belong in the same region as Hearns, aside from Iran Barkley, Hearns only lost fights to HIGH RANKING ATG's, such as Leonard and Hagler.

DLH ought to have lost to Quartey, an old Whitaker, Sturm and the like, not impressive. Whitaker had just prior been behind on the cards against a B- level fighter and had to score a come from behind desperation KO to win.

Then he lost to Mosely at his peak, which Mosely is a great fighter, but not an 'ATG' fighter and then there is a list of fighters that DLH in fact avoided, because the type of numbers weren't there for him. Guys like Wright, Tszyu and Forrest could have all beaten him but the money was never there.

DLH was brought out on a red carpet ride, managed well and had the biggest name in all of boxing and while he made some very good fights and fought great competition, there was also a lot he missed on purpose. When you're in a position to make ANY match possible, which he is, and you MARKET yourself as a guy who 'fights the best' and then only take guys that match up well with you, then what does that say?

How about his contractual stipulations that favour him? Leonard did the same thing, I don't respect that type of ****, but Leonard is 2-3 levels above Oscar De La Hoya, has greater victories, WAY greater, so it's not comparable.

Whoever ranks DLH as a top 50 needs to re-assess what top 50 means.

 

Duran is greater becuase he had quality over quantity. Duran had 12 defenses of one title. DLH defenses are all of the belts he won and defended. Duran went over 70+ fights with only one loss and beat the guy 2 times after that.
ODLH never beat a fighter as great as Sugar Ray Leonard. Duran was inconsistent like ODLH once he got to 147 and up but did something Oscar could never do.....win a title at middleweight and at an advanced age, he was 36-37.

 

Here's a good question you Floyd sack swinging ignorant **** -

What 'fresh' ATG's did DLH beat? None prime, we know this, but fresh?

Sweet Pea was shot, this is fact.

So DLH has defeated Chavez x2, he was 'fresh' in the first one, I'll agree to that and DLH would always beat Chavez. Not prime, but 'fresh' and still an elite level fighter.

Mosely isn't comparable to Leonard.

Another thing, for Roy Jones, being that he was nearly unbeatable at his best, some of the best like Eubank, Benn and the lost were NOT lining up to fight Roy, as Roy provides a certain lost.

Tszyu, Forrest, Winky were DYING to fight DLH. But stylistic troubles aren't going to happen.:yep

 

A great great post!! :good Arum deserves a lot of credit for the earlier part of Oscars hand-picked career. When Oscar got rid of Arum and said "i really put one over on that New york jew", after all that Arum did for him, my dislike went from an 8 out of a possible 10, 10 being not liked at all, to an 11.
The fish nets made my year!!

 

I agree with KG:good

 

duran beat leonard, hoya beat sweet pea as far as I am concerned they are even .

so based on your thinking all duran had to do was beat leonard and he gets ranked as an ATG. Duran could not make one successful defense of any title after 135. hoya has made at least 9 defenses after leaving 135:deal

duran didn't have an amateur record hence the bloated record of bums he beat. being 120-1 means nothing if you can't beat the elite fighters of your era.

yes he did, he beat sweet pea:deal

the fact that he could not win the middleweight title in his prime speaks volume's of duran's ability. like oscar he could win the big one but he was not dominant by any means against the elite's of his era, same boat oscar was in.

 

DLH not in Hearn's class.

 

Long consitent pin point jab, great timing, height and reach and 1 punch KO power combined with technically perfect skills and good speed at WW isn't going to blow out the WW version of DLH?

Come on KG. Vernon Forrest would have likely beaten Hoya wide because of those factors. How much better is Hearns than Forrest?

DLH ducked Forrest for these reasons. I don't give a **** if DLH was competitive with Mosely, Quartey, Trinidad and the rest, they are NOT Thomas Hearns, neither is Fernando Vargas or any other of DLH's competition.

It should be barely, about like people say James Toney is barely. I can live with both Toney and DLH being top 75, but no better. Their career's are somewhat comparable IMO.

But Toney rates better H2H also for MW-LHW. Hoya H2H is not as good, we saw that he was competitive with the highest elite's, but always came up short.

DLH's competition is great, but it is an absolute ****ing lie to say 'he fought the best his entire career', when he purposefully missed quite a few elite's that would have eaten him for lunch.

Hoya fought elite fighters consistently, but ones that made sense in the way of money, not just elite's out right.

However, it is rare when any fighter in the modern era truly 'fights the best always', extremely rare.

Yes, an aging Hopkins, one where there was contractual stipulations for DLH to be able to 'look good' early and not get blown out, a big money making worthless fight between future business partners. Hoya when he reached the height of his fame only fought where it benefitted him 100%. Not the case with Thomas Hearns, who really fought just about everyone.

Why no Winky Wright fight ever?

I am just realistic with him. I come across as a hater perhaps, but he is not anywhere near a top 50 ATG.

 

Duran beat Sugar Ray Leonard when Leonard was at or very close to his absolute peak. Leonard was coming off a win over undefeated Wilfred Benitez. Not to mention that Leonard was at 147 - or his best weight class.

De La Hoya beat Pernell Whitaker when Whitaker was well past his prime and was having drug problems. He struggled in his previous fight with Diosbelys Hurtado but came back to win by KO. Whitaker wasn't at his best weight either - 12 pounds above it.

No question in my mind that Duran's win over Leonard surpassed De La Hoya's win over Whitaker.