Why is Joe Frazier so underrated on here?

Joe didn’t really struggle with Bugner considering he was never in danger of losing and could have finished him that one round. Bugner was good considering he also went the distance with Ali. Also this was post FOTC post Foreman so he wasn’t even at his best. Joe wore Mathis down for a legit victory, Mathis only got the better of him in the earlier rounds as seen in the Olympics.

To beat Frazier convincingly has to be in the earlier rounds with someone bigger and only few fighters could do that, aside from Foreman only Tyson Liston and Lewis off the top of my head.

 

Anyone big athletic and with power would give Frazier trouble he has never shown he can deal with power punchers

 

Most pros are tough the win is what matters chief you're probably just a kid who doesn't know what he is watching YET listen to the old guys we've made these boyish mistakes before you

 

A reminder of why I stay away from hypothetical matchups for the most part.

Too complicated.

 

Bugner was good but he wasn't as good as Norton, Jimmy Young, Lyle or as dangerous as Shavers. Bugner was Fraziers best opponent except Foreman and Ali and it was harder then his other wins.

 

Toughness doesn't matter when you're hit by a right hand from a real SHW

 

With all due respect, I have found that a lot of “why are they underrated” posts on message boards … noy just here, on other sports boards and especially music boards … concern people who have never really been underrated in any shape, form or fashion, and are passive aggressive attempts by massive fans of those people who think they’re the GOAT and want to shame everyone else into thinking that way too.

For the record, on my ATG list … which is not based on who would win H2H, which is why I have him ahead of Liston who IMO would annihilate him H2H … Frazier again is seventh behind Ali, Louis, Holmes, Johnson, Marciano and Foreman and ahead of Liston, Tyson and Lewis. I don’t think I am underrating or disrespecting him.

And I think he would absolutely be competitive with Usyk.

 

I think Joe would be competitive against Holmes but would have a tough row to hoe.

Joe gave Ali hell but the reason he gave Ali hell is because he hated Ali and wanted to kill him, tear his heart out of his chest and eat it as he told someone before Manila. That’s why IMO the FOTC Frazier could only exist on one given night in history against only one given opponent.

 

What makes a fighter a super duper heavyweight? define it

 

I think it's hilarious that despite blocking certain people, you can still tell when people are replying to their posts in a thread, LOL. I don't need a visual confirmation to know who's throwing some bull****.

 

Lennox Lewis

 

Yep, exactly.

Joe was past his best - a valid and generically valid reference point that so many pundits conveniently omit from their analysis’ these days as and when it suits them.

And true also that Frazier had Bugner on toast and, if not so merciful, he would’ve scored a first ever and highly unique and impressive KO/stoppage over the extremely durable Bugner.

As I recall, it was also a single left hook that froze Bugner in his tracks while still on his feet - the single punch that Bugner fell from, arising at the count of 9, I think.

Besides consistently hard punching, Frazier could certainly whip out significant single power shots during the course of a fight.

Also, never mind that Bugner arguably posted his best ever career performance against Frazier also.

The line that’s been pursued is that being big with some pop beats Frazier.

But Bugner didn’t just have those attributes, he was highly skilled, athletic, had very fast hands and a granite chin - again, a chin that Frazier mercifully spared from being well and truly cracked.

How many boxes are ticked there in the face of an irrefutably big and highly capable opponent? More than enough imo.

 

Funny - I don’t block anyone but always figured that you would still glean plenty via contextual replies from other members.

It would read as if they’re replying to a ghost but you know exactly who that ghost is. Lol.

 

You're still a boy MEN have the dignity to deliver answers Earnie Shavers took a boy like you and made him quit through his cowering guard YOU are hiding behind your gloves amigo

 

Frazier was a tough slugger no one could outslug man to man he was too fierce too determined too conditioned coming straight at you constantly till he met someone with toughness skill athletic ability who was bigger heavier and stronger then him like foreman. Then it was a no contest. He was slaughtered. When he fought good people under 200 like Quarry Foster and Ellis or over 200 but slow and unskilled like Bonavena and Chuvalo he was a buzzsaw. Didn’t work against Foreman who was bigger just as talented and strong enough to put him on the canvas when he came right at him.
There was a reason he never fought people like Lyle and Shavers though they didn’t possess the athletic ability of Foreman they fell into that category of too big and too strong for Frazier. He had more of a chance against them but they had the size and power to out him on the canvas. How bout Liston they never made a match with him. You like Fraziers chances coming right at Liston?
Usyk is a different breed of newer bigger fighter. He’s a master boxer along with being 6 2 1/2 220 of well conditioned athlete not a fatty like Buster Mathis. You want to claim Manuel Ramos or Bugner also as super heavies please. Bugner had no punch and Ramos was third rate skill wise. Neither had the weight conditioning and strength approaching new guys like Klitchcos, Lennox Lewis, Tyson Fury.