Why is light heavyweight referred to as one of the original divisions?

This might be a dumb question, and it's probably not worthy of a thread, but the light-heavyweight division wasn't one of the original divisions. It was created in the early 1900s as a tweener division, for guys who were too big to make middleweight and thought to be too small to fare well against the likes of Jim Jeffries. The precursor to the creation of cruiserweight division 75 years later. So how exactly is it one of boxing's original divisions? Original by what criteria?

 

It turned out to be one of the best divisions, and then when they split it again, you had two divisions that were still among the best!

To answer your question, it was created between the mass division movements.

 

Well, it was one of the first 8, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't the last of them made (although I'd have to check) and either way, the first 8 are a myth really, given that they all came at different times.

It's certainly more historical compared to any that aren't the other 7, despite literally being a catchweight used to duck Jeffries.

 

Middleweight has been very flexible over the years.

 

I’m still waiting for your argument in a certain thread George.

Bless you Kevin and your threads.

 

Because "Original 8" has a nice ring to it.

 

How so?

 

It's just funny because even the name itself shows that it's a derivative division. I wonder if anybody complained about it the way some classic boxing fans complain about the cruiserweight division.

 

I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it wasn't taken seriously by many people originally. It wasn't until Bob Fitzsimmons won the title (he was the third champion) that people took it seriously. But I don't remember where I read that so I don't know if that's a reliable story.

 

Why are any of them?

Flyweight is also a much later one.

If you look it up in Paddy Duffy's time welterweight was seen as a division between Lightweight and Middleweight, rather than a division in it's own right, and the limit was often 140Ibs.

The Bantamweight limit could be 105Ibs, with guys like Jimmy Barry and Johnny Coulon, hardly the same division we have now

Featherweight was all over the place too.

Lightweight was 133, but then went as high as 138

Middleweight was originally 154.

The original Light Heavyweight division was also 170.

The idea of 8 original divisions basically has no truth to it, there was hardly a significant time period with the "original 8" and no other divisions.

 

Here's the earliest reference to a weigh in I've found, though it's almost certainly not the first. It was surprising to me how far it goes back

Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette - Thursday 05 March 1761
Monday last the Trial of Skill between George Maggs, of Pensford in this County, and Stephens the Nailer, was decided at the Tennis-Court in St. James-Street, near the Hay-Market, London. There were assembled the greatest Concourse of Nobility, Gentry, &c/ ever known on the like Occation. The Champions mounted the Stage between Twelve and One. At first setting to, Maggs struck the Nailer down; afterwards the Nailer knocked him down twice; and for ten Minutes he seemed to have the Advantage: However, the heroic Maggs, by his great Skill, uncommon Strength, unequal'd Courage, and matchless Agility, soon changed the Scene; struck the Nailer down six Times successively; and finally stript him of all Laurels he had acquired by his many former Victories.--- Smallwood was Second to Maggs, and Faulkner to Stephens.---
According to the most exact Accounts, the Battle lasted just seventeen Minutes and a half.
A certain Royal Personage was present, and won large Sums. 'Tis said upward of 50,000l. depended on the Issue of this Battle: One Nobleman lost above 2000l.
We hear that Maggs and the Nailer were weighed a few Days before they fought; and that there were only five Pounds Difference, which was in Maggs favour.

 

It should be noted, Light Heavyweight goes back before Jack Root.

Jack Burke was refered to as a Light Heavyweight in the 1880's. Joe Choynski was declared the Light Heavyweight champion after beating Jim Hall in 1896, I'll see if there's anything earlier.

 

What I can't figure out is why Choynski still seems to have been getting recognised as the Light Heavyweight champion after each loss to McCoy.

 

Interesting. Re: Jack Burke being called a light heavyweight in the 1880s: Did it seem to be a consistent reference or was it more of a one-off reference?

 

The Light Heavyweight division was called Cruiserweight in some circles many years before the official 176-190 (or 195 or 200) lb. Cruiserweight division was established.