Why is Liston given credit for being a harder puncher than Joe Louis?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, May 24, 2023.



  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    If you look at their top ranked opponents, Louis actually flattened modern sized super heavy sized opponents (im not talking about their skill level, just size). Louis hit Buddy Baer so hard he made him spin in a circle. What feats of punching power did Liston perform that Louis likely would have been unable to perform? I could see Louis doing the same to Floyd Patterson. I could also see Louis starching Roy Harris or Zora Folley.
     
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  2. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    To answer your question, because Louis had to work a lot harder, and often a lot longer to set up his opponent and wear him down before he knocked him out. Liston was almost always able to easily storm out and overwhelm a guy without much technique and just bomb him out.
     
  3. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Like the idiot you always were, you're wrong. Unless Louis could KO Folley out of the gate, he wouldn't stand a chance against Folley. Folley would beat him at his own game.
     
  4. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    I think they're pretty close, but Liston edges it. An important part of Louis' power is how he executed it, his beautiful combinations and timing were largely what caused his KOs, whereas Liston was more powerful when it came to pure punching power.

    But there is an argument for Joe as well. Like you said, he knocked out much more modern sized heavies.
     
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I never realized that Liston was ranked universally higher as a puncher than Joe Louis. I always figured that there were some who rated him as such but just thought of it as an opinion and nothing more. It’s certainly possible that Liston packed more power in a single punch but either way they’re both great punchers
     
  6. ThatOne

    ThatOne Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You think Joe Louis could stop Floyd in the first round not once, but twice? Who else did that?
     
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  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Louis could probably do the same thing to Floyd. Including duplicating Liston's fear aura.

    On the thread topic: Perhaps Liston also gets a boost in some eyes because there are accounts from common opponents that he hit like Foreman, whose power is almost a meme at this point. Liston seems a little more modern than Louis because of his proximity to the Ali era; he gets some of the reflected glow of that period. He's a little bigger than Louis. Louis is just enough smaller than Liston and Ali -- a matter of a few pounds -- that I think people envision him as out-sized. Some of Liston's crazier body proportions, like his 84" reach add to this impression. He fits the monsterman image better.

    The sparring stories Foreman tells about Liston get a lot of play as well. People take a vision of Liston from those anecdotes as basically Foreman with more advanced technical boxing skills: sort of a Foremanized Joe Louis.

    You've also got the press and gym legends of frightening power -- damaged sparring partners, super-sized gloves, etc. Lots of people have those stories, though. Marciano has a ton of them.

    And, I mean, Liston did hit really, really hard.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2023
  8. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    I say I resent that remark! And Folley would be flattened against any version of Louis from 1935-1948
     
  9. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    If he came out like he did in Schmeling 2, it's possible. Also, keep in mind, Patterson at 6'0 190ish pounds would be a smaller sized cruiser with day before weigh ins. I mean, there are cruisers the size of Cleveland Williams on fight night (Williams was 6'3 215 pounds when he fought Liston).

    If, say, Deontay Wilders marquis win was against a guy who was 6'0 190 pounds, no matter how skilled that 190 pounder might be, many on here would question Wilders power, especially if he couldn't put that 190 pounder down for a 10 count and he got up multiple times.
     
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  10. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    We just can't say for sure because Liston didn't really fight anyone above 230.
     
  11. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Can't agree.
     
  12. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Are you seriously saying that Folley would beat Louis? I'm not sure he'd beat the Louis of 1950 -51 TBH
     
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  13. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not that he would, he could.
     
  14. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Patterson was 194 lbs. in the rematch, but your point is well taken.
    I have no doubt Liston hit harder for several reasons.

    Anecdotes from fighters & training stories, as already referenced.
    That Louis lost his power by the time he was (1)37, according to Marciano, his right hand was "nothing".
    That & his easily observable great hand speed when younger show his power & its effect depended largely on speed.
    And he was more "efficent" re: his power having a disproportionate effect, due to combatants often not seeing or being able to brace for blows-& even greater accuracy that Sonny.
    While combos coming fast can easily have more effect that harder blows that do not come in such bunches.
    Much like Tyson's case! He hit really hard, but we & he could name those who hit harder-but were rarely as skilled, or fast.

    Liston had huge hands & bone structure & power.
    Louis was even better overall.
    But in terms of pure Blunt Force Trauma, Liston is gonna hit harder-like a truck.
     
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I highly highly doubt Louis bombs out Patterson in one twice. I could conceivably see Patterson taking one bout in a trilogy though I wouldn't bet on it.