Why is Liston given credit for being a harder puncher than Joe Louis?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, May 24, 2023.



  1. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Count of Monte Fisto Full Member

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    What in the- resign now, my God.
     
  2. Spreadeagle

    Spreadeagle Member Full Member

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    Excellent summary.
     
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  3. Spreadeagle

    Spreadeagle Member Full Member

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    The heavyweight division has produced so many nuclear punchers,including
    of course these 2 ATGs.
    I'll go along with the majority opinion that Liston hit with more heavy-handed force
    but both men inflicted horrific damage on their opponents.
    There is a tendency among some folks to underrate the sheer force of Louis's
    punches.This is due to Louis's other sterling qualities such as handspeed,accuracy,
    and timing etc overshawdowing the great man's raw power.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Louis forced Jim Braddock's teeth through his mouthpiece and into his lips with one right hand.This is confirmed in a taped interview Braddock gave to Peter Heller.
    Louis smashed Uzcudun's gold teeth out ,ringside observers said they were lying on the canvas like a charm bracelet.

    Joe's destruction of Buddy Baer in their second fight is absolutely awesome.

    Liston may have had slightly more power in a single shot,but Louis's accuracy and delivery are second to none for ko power.imo
     
  5. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Interesting question.

    Intuitively, easy to say Liston but on closer analysis, there might not be a lot in it - particularly when considering best punch for best punch.

    Even though speed contributed to Louis’ power, the power was no less legit. Perhaps Liston hit more consistently hard, and that margin would widen when comparing Liston to an incrementally slower and slower Louis.

    Liston wasn’t slow but speed wasn’t as heavy a contributor to his power (as Louis’). Liston’s power was more raw and therefore less diminished when Liston began to lose his own speed.

    I’ve read Folley idolised and modelled himself on Louis. Watching Folleys style, I think it definitely shows.

    However, just imo, Zora was very much a lite version of Joe, certainly not as fast, powerful, nor did he display the same punch variety or fluidity in combination. And Zora was still very good imo, Louis was just ridiculously great.

    While there are a number of testimonies to and anecdotes re Liston’s power, as @mcvey illustrated, there’s no shortage of same re the power and effect of Louis’ punches.

    Also, I don’t know how much more convincing we might need when we can see the effects of Louis’ punches on the likes of Carnera, the Baers and Simon etc. That was some seriously insane power - not relative but in absolute terms.
     
  6. PRW94

    PRW94 Active Member Full Member

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    What magnifies Liston in some people’s eyes IMO was the aura of menace that surrounded him. Except for a few times when he got pissed, Louis was a poker-faced, doll’s eyes killer. Liston’s evil intentions were reflected in every centimeter of his face. As far as sheer physical punching power, though, IMO it’s close but as people have noted it’s like a sledgehammer (Liston) vs. a jackhammer (Louis); both are quite effective.
     
  7. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Allah Vs. satan Full Member

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    IMO Charles L. "Sonny" Liston mostly created such an image, an image, an aura... about himself by knocking out the current world heavyweight champion poor Floyd Patterson in the first round, and in the rematch he did it again; which has never happened in boxing history (and the question is whether it will ever happen).

    I think Sonny Liston hit just a shade harder than Joe Louis, but he had a much higher "fear factor".
     
  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    For the public, yes. For his opponents, I'm not so sure. I've seen statements on this forum quoting Louis's opponents as being afraid of him in the ring.
     
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  9. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    He did stop Schmeling and Buddy Baer in 1. Schmeling and Patterson are comparable h2h and Buddy Baer is the same size as a modern day heavyweight, so it's possible. But I wouldn't be expecting a 1 round stoppage in a hypothetical Louis vs Patterson fight.
     
  10. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Schmeling was better than Patterson. Though maybe not at the points of their careers we're talking about.
     
  11. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not gonna do it. I am not ashamed of my position.
     
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  12. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I totally agree with you. Joe messed a lot of guys up. Still, look at some of his other fights though. 11 rounds to stop Bob Pastor, 13 to stop Abe Simon, 13 to stop Billy Conn, 11 to stop Jersey Joe Walcott. It was often a wearing down process. The longest it ever took Liston to stop somebody was Chuck Wepner in 9, and he was pretty old by then.
     
  13. Terror

    Terror free smoke Full Member

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    I agree with this post. I found Liston's power to be overrated. I think he had an ace up his sleeve vs. Patterson and it maybe said more about Floyd than Liston. I think his jab and physicality were what distinguished Liston, not his power. Louis is a much more precise and better puncher for my money. It isn't close. The quality of the punches is way higher with Louis. I think Liston just had a really good approach to winning fights moreso than any one amazing quality.
     
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  14. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Without much technique?
    Liston’s was excellent he was rarely wild with his punches, he was well schooled.
     
  15. Terror

    Terror free smoke Full Member

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    I believe Sonny Liston has a top 10 jab of all time heavyweight boxing for what it's worth.
     
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