Why is Pacquiao so popular in the US and the Klit brothers aren't?

Please expand on this, because as far as I can tell, the rest of your post was completely beyond the point.

Americans don't like the Klitschkos because we fear them and hold them in contempt? Are you saying this is a Cold War attitude we can't grow past, or that we resent foreigners holding a title that was once considered as American as apple pie?

Just speaking for myself, even as someone who is very aware of what the shortcomings of American society are, my reasons for being less than enthused about them boil down to the division being horribly weak, and Wlad employing an awful to watch, safety first style since the first Brewster fight. Nothing more, nothing less.

Everyone is a product of their environment, but arguing that the failure to appreciate the Klitschkos is entirely reducible to four hundred years of American social conditioning is a new one. Actually, it reminds me a little of a fighter turning a t-shirt designed to create hype into an opportunity to reflect (awkwardly) upon the philosophical and ethical underpinnings of "sport".

How have you been conditioned?

 

in pseudo-intellectualism.

what a ****ing clown.

 

I think you answered your own question. The Soviet Union was the boogie man for almost two generations of Americans experience. Hell, I and my friends had to hide under desks and run home from school and hide in the basement when the big air-raid siren went off signaling a possible Soviet nuclear strike. That breeds long-term hostility, fear and hate for those subhuman "robots" over there. It's amazing the Klits are as well liked as they are in America. The fact that they mastered the English language, are funny and engaging and totally tear down the stereotype of the cold menacing Russian man of war has a lot to do with that. As to your second point; are Americans pissed off and rather churlish that foreign fighters dominate the glamour division of heavyweight, for decades the sole bastion of American fighters? DUH!!!!!

 

huh? that just sounds like an incredibly forced opinion.

 

Come on! if the K brothers fought with the same heart and desire as Pacquiao..... they'd be huge!

 

Nothing forced about that observation. The Klits are huge, tall and unusually athletic for their size. Just look at all the other really tall big guys and compare. Tye Fields, Two Tall Jones of the 70's, Jameel Mcline, Austin, etc. are or were all big and tall fighters who had potential but no where near the athletic prowess of the Klits. Lots of big and tall dudes give boxing a try and some have some success. Jess Willard at 6 and a half feet and 250lbs. had some success until he met the much faster and athletic Jack Dempsey. He was destroyed by the Manassa Mauler and Jack would be butchered by either Klit. Times, they move on and the Klit bros. offer a glimpse of the future; huge, tall men with true athletic prowess.

 

This whole "the silly Americans don't like Wlad and Vitali because they're RACIST!!!!" bullet point is massively ignorant. Isn't deciding an entire country is racist in and of itself, a racist notion? Think about that for a second.

"I just HATE racists!! Yeah, everyone in America that doesn't love a Klitschko is racist!! People that don't like Klitschko are thugs." What???


That is tremendously simplistic and borderline ******ed. Do you live your whole life that way, deciding to chalk up any experience where a foreigner might not like you as some sort of racist hate crime? Like anytime a Jewish gentleman asks a girl out on a date and is turned down, he can automatically come to the assumption that the girl MUST have been an anti-Semite? Not having to actually think things out for yourself must make life a lot less complicated. Sometimes when a relationship ends, and the girl tells you - it's not you, it's me. Guess what, not only was she NOT a racist, but get this - it WAS you. Someone actually didn't like you without being a racist. It's possible. Same thing with Wlad Klitschko. Take a few moments to let that sink in, breath in, now exhale.

 

Ben just summed up exactly what I was trying to say in something like a billion less words than I did. Kudos.

 

Pac speaks english!! I do not speak tagalog and I understand many

 

This is about spot-on actually.

Us Yankees are pretty demanding in that area.

 

Firstly, the only point that has been raised is that the lack of popularity is partly explained by the Klits fitting a particular cultural stereotype.
That is not the same as saying it is the only reason for their lack of popularity. It is also not the same as saying all Americans are racist. Both are strawman arguments - logically invalid.

Even if one were to decide that an entire country was racist - that isn't racist, because nationality does not equal race. Again logically invalid.

Denying cultural stereotypes is perpetuating parochial ignorance. It won't go away if you ignore it.

Rather than you asking people to "think for a second" I am going to ask you think for a few minutes longer than that. Spend the 5 minutes to actually read the article I linked to (the summary of the research) and then try to deny that there are negative cultural stereotypes that exist within USA; ones with profound and disturbing implications.

Again, don't take this personally. You will find that this is the same situation in just about any country you wish to name - and that is because it boils down to human nature. And since it boils down to human nature, you will find individuals within those nations who are not affected by it.

Again this is only part of the Klitchko's lack of popularity. But it is real.

Again - it doesn't matter that people don't like this, or that people refuse to accept it. It is all factual.

Personally I judge people not on the colour of their skin, nor on where they were born, but on how well they address unpleasant truths about themselves. This shows me both their courage and their ethical stance.
Each person who has fabricated a strawman (the same one several times this thread) is showing that they refuse to face unpleasant truths. That says everything it needs to.

 

Because Pacquiao delivers interesting and meaningful speeches... Tho I have no idea about the Klitschos' speeches...

“Pleasant evening to all the guests, my fellow awardees and the esteemed members of the Boxing Writers Association of America. I would like to congratulate the Boxing Writers Association of America for it's 84th annual awards night. Your long existence only proves that there no association more prestigious than the Boxing Writers Association of America. (applause)

You have passed the test of time. It is my great honor and privilege to be chosen as the 2008 Fighter of the Year. It is for this reason that I chose to travel half across the globe to personally receive this award tonight. (cheers and applause)
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Choosing me as the fighter of the year in 2006 was the highest accolade in my boxing career. Giving it to me for the second time leaves me with no words to express the joy and how grateful I feel. It would surely pain me not to come accept this prestigious award personally. I want to let you know that it is a privilege to personally receive this award and thank everybody for their trust and confidence you have given me. Deep in my heart I know how the BWAA has supported me in my boxing career. The members have been kind and wonderful to me in the write-ups.
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Who I am, not only in America but the whole world is something I owe to you my friends. And for that, I will be forever grateful. (cheers and applause) For honoring me with this prestigious award, I promise the Boxing Writers Association of America that the boxing fans will see a more exciting Manny Pacquiao, every round, every minute, every second I fight on the top of the ring…
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I also hope that this award will serve as an example and an inspiration for the young fighters to believe in themselves and keep on dreaming big. Always remember, your dreams will always be inside you. No one can take it away.
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Having this award now is really larger than life; having to follow the footprints of the legendary fighters. But I didn’t do it all by myself. I had the help and support of many people. I’d like to take this rare opportunity to thank all of them, especially to our God. Without God I am not here. For all the blessing he gave me, Thank you.
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And to my wife and kids: Jinkee, Michael, Jimwell, Princess and Queen Elizabeth (laughter and cheers) and to my family who supported me- advice, encouragement and comfort over the course of this endeavor having more than I can express.
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Mr. Bob Arum, my promoter Bob, Thanks for believing in me.
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To my trainer Freddie Roach, Congratulations coach for being the trainer of the year. You deserve it!
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To the members of Team Pacquiao, it has been a wonderful year for all of us.
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To the Filipino nation who continue to inspire me to do my best. To all the boxing fans, to my fellow nominees who are equally great and excellent in their own way. And to all the people and institutions that I forgot to mention who in one way or another contributed a lot to making everything possible for me. Thank you! This is for you!!!"
(Applause)