why is stanley ketchel so underated here?

Ketchel was dead at 23, a month and a day before his 24th birthday,he had 48 kos in 53 wins,for such a short career he accomplished a lot imo.

 

Wouldn't doubt it. Johnson went into the fight with a exhibition mentality, as he was told it'd be a 20 round draw that would result in a big money rematch.

He was casually beating the **** out of Ketchel the entire fight, so who knows.

 

I dont think Ketchel looks good on film but Philadelphia Jack O'Brien does look prety good and Ketchel destroyed him twice.

Looking good on film isnt everything.

 

I'm just saying, when people denigrate Ketchel, one of the first things they say is that he looks like **** in the available footage.

 

I think as late as the 1970s, Nat Fleischer rated him as the #1 middleweight of all time.

 

Welcome to the board.

Are you in fact the authour of the coming Joe Gans book?

 

Yes, I co-authored the book with Mark Scott. It is actually out now and available at Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Thank you for asking and being so welcoming. As you see, I am a newbie here, but this looks like an amazing forum.

 

You will be a verry welcome addition to this forum.

 

I rate Ketchel on high end of top 5

 

I have sung Ketchel's praises many times here! He is top five all-time at middleweight-exactly where we could argue forever.

As for Ketchel vs. Johnson we know the outcome of the fight but remember some of these things:

-Ketchel had never fought another heavyweight-he jumped from middleweight to the fighting the #1 HW in the world all-in one shot

-he was only 23

-gave up 35 pounds and 4'5 inches and had fought Johnson to a draw at that point(12 rounds).

The fight ended when both men went down (from punches) but Johnson arose still dazed and clung to the ropes for the win.

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:19145

 

Thank you for the kind welcome to the forum. As for the Ketchel-Johnson fight, I thought you might be interested in some information about this fight that I came across while researching the Joe Gans book. The fight never made sense to me as much as I admired Ketchel. Ketchel was a terrific fighter but at forty pounds lighter, he had no business being in the same ring with Jack Johnson, but the handling of the fight seems to explain it. The fight was arranged by Ketchel's "scoundrel" manager at the time--Willus Britt, Jimmie Britt's brother/manager. (Willie Britt was one of the four club managers in the San Francisco fight cartel at the time.) The K/J fight was five years after a similar arrangement had been made by manager W. Britt between Jimmy Britt and Joe Gans, a fight that virtually derailed Gans' title lineage. Willus Britt made a deal with Gans' manager, Al Herford, to let Jimmy Britt have a good showing in exchange for "fouling out." The same arrangement was said to have been made by Britt for the Ketchel-Johnson fight. We can only assume that Johnson let Ketchel toy with him until he thought "enough of that showing!!"
Colleen

 

That report does not fit with the film which shows Johnson picking Ketchel up like a doll and placing him where he likes,twice he wobbles Stanley and grabs him before he goes down sitting him back on his feet .Johnson is standing ,one hand on his hip the other ontheropes ,lookin nonchalantly down on his vanquished foe.WATCH THE FIGHT BEFORE MAKING STATEMENTS LIKE THIS ! atsch

 

Any one watching this fight who thinks it is on the level,and that Johnson is trying to hurt Ketchel ,should take up BRAILLE.

 

As they say, "to get along, Johnson had to go along." The San Francisco trust had the clout to call the shots in many of the fights. You are right when you said on another post that you thought Johnson was just upset and let Ketchel know about it.

 

Nat Fleischer was a stubborn man partial to a certain era of fighters.... Nat has been dead since 1972 or so..... His opinions are out of date / tune... Nat had some weight behind his opinions' while he was alive, but 35 years have now passed by and we've had several great fighters pop up in various divisions who'd give his personal favorites a damn good run for the money, if not beat them convincingly...

MR.BILL

Extra:

Dudes like "Ketchel & Greb" were very tough and rugged brawlers, but not blessed with polished skills... As great as they were, "Robinson, Monzon, Hagler & B-Hops" would eat them two guys up in a time machine....