Why is Sugar Ray Leonard ranked so much higher than Hagler all-time?

Ohhh like Norris if Leonard was in his prime then. Sorry, i thought you'd thrown prime out the window

 

Ray Leonard would have little trouble with Honeyghan. Mid rounds KO for Ray. I'm talking about Ray in 1980. Donald Curry was not close to Leonard.

 

Well Sugar Ray Leonard wasnt favored 3-1 for nothing so I guess that means he wasn't too far past his prime.

Ray could never handle Norris...or Lloyd even on his best day

 

That's very obviously dog****. If Leonard was so overrated, how did he manage to beat Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler? Was he lucky all those times?

 

Duran-made sure ie got him in the worst shape possible. See Randy Gordon's article no mas for details

Hearns-3 years from his prime, 2 pounds too light.

Hagler-a shell by 1987. Where was Ray years 1982-85?

Benitez-well who hasnt beaten him?

 

Whats Hagler's best wins? Name his four best.

 

I agree that Duran was not in top shape for the rematch with Leonard, but even an out-of-shape Duran was a tough proposition around 1980, and Leonard was excellent on the night anyway.

Your comment on Hearns is laughable.

Hagler was well past-prime against Leonard, but not a "shell", a shell would have lost to Mugabi. Ray was retired with an injury in those years. I think Hagler would have beaten him between 82-85, but the fight never happened, and Leonard beat him after a long lay-off, you have to give him credit for that.

Benitez was a superb fighter, what you said is very disrespectful and ignorant.

 

Not to contradict you but I read Randy's article. I like to keep myself informed on these sorts of things.

Read Randy's article No mas and see if you still agree with that statement. According to Randy, Roberto was in no condition to be in a 15 fight. Read it and get back to me then tell me what you think.

as for Hagler, I dont know how anyone can say he wasn't shot. What to you does a shot fighter resemble?

I myself watched him a couple weeks before the fight (late March) sparring the Weaver triplets. One of the regular posters here (John Thomas) kept taunting me "prove it, show us a photo" which i later did that same night.

My question to you is if Marvin was outclassed by three amateurs before hand, out sped by all three much the same way Norris outclassed and outsped Leoanrd, only worse. you have to conclude that if amateurs would have outpointed him given it had been a live bout, then it is Hagler's decline and not so much Leonard so much that did him in the end.

Now John Thomas had something in reserve in case it turned out I had actually had physical proof. he said 'even its true you dont know what you're looking at'

But even here I can prove that I'm right. In the book Sorcery at Caesars read page 148 about the Weavers and the Hagler exhibition.

I have to tell you that Hagler slipping just a bit is a rumour meant so that it wouldnt take away from Leonard's accomplishment. But since I've seen so much of Hagler and the consensus is with me, Hagler slipping is before the Hearns fight.

This was very much talked about going into the Hamsho rematch which I watched live. no doubt was slipping at the time and to know this you'd have to see him often and get a feel for his style which I did. he was slipping but I felt still had more than enough left to easily destroy the likes of Hearns and Leonard.

i strongly urge you to read Randy's article on No mas. he is the person leoanrd confided in upon making the first match with Duran. You can get the whole story from him and while you're at it get a copy of Sorcery at Caesar's if you want insight into both leonard and Hagler.

 

I'm waiting for an awnser Rooster. Don't duck it.

 

I'll do better than four, I'll name his best ten. With Leonard you can only get four.

Bennie Briscoe

Willie Monroe 2,3

Mike Colbert

kevin Finnegan 1,2

Bobby Watts 1980

Caveman Lee

Norberto Cabrera

Ray Seales 3

Alan Minter

Fully Obel 2

Tony Sibson

Wilford Scypion

Hamsho 1,2

Thomas Hearns

I'm sorry I went over my own limit. Like John Thomas says I'm bad at math.

 

You got to be kidding me

 

Name me his four best.

 

that's any one's guess. Maybe minter

I remember the Obel fight like it was yesterday. marvin and Fully were at close quarters in a corner when Fully spun out of there and marvin with his unsurpassed killer instinct, lept out at his with a right that had lights out written all over it. Simply awesome! It was 1982's knockout of the year.

Then again there was the Lee fight that displayed the irrisistible might that scared off Tommy and Leonard-no more talk of superfights for 3 years.

they were scared shitless.

Al Braverman said the Hamsho fight was Marvin's best that he and Paddy Flood never saw him look so good.

Manassa thinks Sibson was his best and many think Hearns was his most impressive.

 

Ray wouldnt beat Terry Norris. Check the tape if you have doubts. I can safely say that Terry beat him definitely. It was simply no contest

 

Just name me four definite, please. Forget Caveman Lee. That would come under his best performances.

Best wins, aka best fighters he beat.