Why is Sugar Ray Leonard ranked so much higher than Hagler all-time?

Couldn't agree more. It's all about the quality of the opponents not whether you can jump up divisions or not.

In some cases jumping divisions has allowed fighters a fresh pool of high quality challengers to deal with, after already dominating those in the division below. However, in some instances fighters have changed divisions to avoid particular opponents.

 

Fighters who stay and dominate a certain division over a period of time have two options if they remain. Which are, fight naturals at the weight or fighters moving up. On rare ocassions moving down happens. Some naturals will be poor, also average, with others being being so good they could well be considered as the 'favourite' over the champion.

In most cases with fighters moving up, size and experience at the weight will usually have a huge sway in the odds favouring the champion. Usually 80% of the time. No matter what accomplishments the fighter moving up has achieved in the divisions below prior to facing the champion.

Leonard was the fav over Duran, Holmes the same with Spinks, Hagler over Leonard, etc, etc. Also De La Hoya is the odds on fav next Saturday against Pacquiao.

A fighter moving up is going out of his depth, although that depends on the quality of fighter he's ready to challenge who's seen as being bigger and stronger. Roy Jones' win over Ruiz is a classic example. Jones was seen as the quickest and most naturally talented fighter in the sport. Ruiz on the other hand was seen a extremely limited, although durable with reasonable power.

IMO Jones' feat of being the first middleweight in over 100 years to capture the heavyweight title adds extra weight to his achievement. And obviously his shut-out, dazzling, display over the distance can't be overlooked either. But the bottom line is that size, and perhaps power, were the only things Jones had to deal with.

 

Ray Leonard does not beat Ray Robinson at any weight. Leonard would be shocked at how hard Ray Robinson punched with both hands and would be on the defensive side most of the night. He would have a tough time with Emile Griffith too.

 

Interesting view, and one I'm not challenging other than to say that Leonard was very, very good and should not be sold short.

 

Yeah he's one of the best and I pick him over every welterweight but Robinson and Griffith.

 

Napoles?

 

What are you saying that Norris did not kick ass? Face facts, if Leonard were anywhere near the fighter you claim to be-good enough to match up with Robinson too close to call with a straight face, then he should realistically have no problem with him. Being that Ray was a heavy favorite it doesnt make sense why he would be so easily defeated by another fighter of lesser experience.

Get real here - Ray leonard isnt even the class of Terry Norris let alone marvin Hagler.

comparing leonard to Robinson is also absurd. A man who lost his title on the second defense and had 4 altogether I have to tell you I've seen better reigns. And if you're judging him head to head, he's going to get himself knocked out or hadnt you noticed how often he hit the canvas. Even people smaller than Ray put him down.

So forget about this nonsense about leonard competing with Ray Robinson. Robbi fought anyone anywhere including heavier opponents on a regular basis whereas you would be hard pressed to get Leonard in the ring with you unless you all but lost your last match.

As for his record, what would possibly make you believe that his puny 36-3-1 record can't be bettered?

 

Napoles could beat him too. I forgot about him.

 

I never had the impression SRL was ranked (so much higher) then Hagler. If anything, you constantly read about how great Hagler was. He was great but in my view not as great as they make him out to be. If anything, you seldom read much about SRL. Leonard was atleast in my view the better of the two. I dont just base that on Leonard's win over Hagler. I base it on his skill levels. He was very smooth. Reminded me a lot of SRR. SRR was a notch above Leonard.

 

Did I just read somewhere that Honeyghan beats prime Leonard atsch:rofl:yep:yep:rofl

 

Leonard fought and beat all the legends he fought starting with Benitez, then Duran and then Hearns. Then Ray put the icing on the cake with Marvin. You cannot beat that. He beat all the significant guys in his era. On that note, Hearns career I thought was underrated. He beat great Cueves for his first title, beat great Benitez for his second title, fought Hagler for his 3rd and had the round of boxing history, won the lightheavyweight title being the first welterweight to win that title, then moved down and became the first middleweight champion to first be lightheavyweight champ. Then later won the WBO title at Supermiddleweight, and topped his career off with a win over undefeated lightheavyweight champ Virgil Hill. If that is not stellar what is? I think his losses against Ray and Marvin make people look down on Tommy, but his accomplishments and wins and resume are incredible.

 

I think Hagler is the better fighter. Don't know why but I just don't like Leonard, which is strange as he has everything I admire in a boxer.

Also, Leonard had exposure and had an easier route to the top. Hagler is pure old school and fought his way to the top.

Leonard has better wins; Prime WW Hearns (H2H nightmare for every ATG WW) Benitez (knocked out the defensive master) Halger (everyone knows the debate) as well as Lalonde (severely weight drained due to leonard's insistence the fight also be for the vacant WBC SMW title) and many others.

I go for Hagler due to my opinions on him as a FIGHTER; H2H, hagler at MW for me is pretty much unbeatable. Sure, Robinson would've pushed him very hard, and Monzon may have a shout, but I see Hagler as the greatest MW of all time.

Don't see Robinson as the best in any of his divisions. I often think that going up and down in weight makes fighters seem greater then they are. Not saying Leonard isn't great, he's in my top 20 of all time (and in a lot of peoples top 5-10) but I just prefer Hagler.

No doubt it is due to bias. I'm a big Pryor fan as well so that's probably a reason Leonard irks me.