Why is Sugar Ray Robinson considered the GOAT ?

True. I'm using an extreme example to make the point.

Fighters don't go into the ring with a fight plan that consists of their opponent suffering a freak injury. There's a reason that managers are able to cherry pick 20-30 opponents to pad records who are pretty darn unlikely to beat their guy. Boxing is unpredictable, but it's not so wildly unpredictable that we can't (say) bet lots of money on some outcomes.

 

Anybody got footage of a prime Robinson performance? I've only seen 10 second clips of Robinson mostly because of damaged footage. Does any of a full fight exist? If not how is there enough proof for SRR to be considered the GOAT? Just asking, I do already know he was a master of his time.

 

Complete and close to prime performances on film include a decision win over Bobby Dykes and his sixth win over Jake LaMotta for the middleweight title. He passes the eye test in both those fights.

 

I actually think Floyd pretty clearly deserved the decision over Maidana in the first fight and had him winning the first fight with Casillo as well. I still think Robinson deserves to be ranked higher and really don't feel there's any compelling argument to be made in opposition to that statement.

 

It would have been a unique fight in the division's history.

Probably the closest that we came to it, was when Mickey Walker was briefly considered as an opponent for Primo Carnera.

What chance would I give Burns?

As close to zero as you reasonably can in a fantasy fight.

However, this was held up as an example of a fantasy fight where the outcome would be certain, and even in this case I have to say that it is not!

 

Nothing is "certain" in that sense. But "as close to zero as you reasonably can" is sufficiently close to "certain" that the difference doesn't trouble me overmuch.

 

The problem is, that if any of us were any good at predicting the outcome of fights, we wouldn't need to work for a living.

Yes you can hand pick an example where the odds are so heavily weighted, that they are close to absolute truth, as has been done here, but most fantasy fights are not like that.

They are based on some dichotomy of opinion, or at least a belief in one camp, that the underdog is a live one.

Guess what, we have never had a Klitschko vs Burns thread, for precisely that reason.

That is why I do not think that head to head rankings carry a lot of value, to get back to the original point.

 

Oscar De La Hoya would get blasted out by Robinson lol

 

I tend to agree that head to head is overplayed as a criterion, for the reason you mention.

 

You must be Floyd himself, as I've never met anyone who thinks he shaded the JLC fight.

 

I can't resist this postscript:

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/prime-tommy-burns-vs-prime-mike-tyson.599445/

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/tommy-burns-vs-mike-tyson.121611/

And finally...

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...-rd-2-vitali-klitschko-vs-tommy-burns.182532/

 

For the record, I also had Floyd nicking that one. 114-112, iirc, and I'm on the same page as Drew all round as I think Floyd clearly beat Maidana and has no case for being more accomplished than Mayweather.

 

The exceptions that prove the rule.

As Tommy Burns was!

 

That never happened to Vitali before.

 

Okay- Here you go.
Vitali murders Burns (More then likely)