Why is/was Joe Calzaghe hated on

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Dance84, Jan 23, 2019.



  1. C HOP

    C HOP The World Awaits Full Member

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    Unfortunately it's due to both his punching style in the later part of his career. Because basically his hands were shot

    And his level of opponents, people forget (rightly so) Peter Manfredo JR, saying it's a name to get in the US market. When there were so many top names in the US.

    His fight against Robin Reid was a classic, Eubank a classic, Early versions of himself showed so much promise. He would still be talked about today if he fought the best in the light heavy and forgot the WBO which was hardly recognised.

    Quickly forgotten about when retired because to many top fighters were already in development and more intriguing. Which he never fought (Andre Ward, Carl Froch)

    His book which is a terrible read btw.
     
  2. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He could punch, in his prime he was a hard puncher, dropped Eubank twice, sparked Byron Mitchell, but his hands were prone to injury meaning he had to take power off his shots later in his career and rely on his boxing skill and volume punching instead. Maybe his tendency to slap is the reason why he had so many hand problems, can't imagine it's good to punch with your fingers instead of your knuckles.
     
  3. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    They were due to fight after. Woodhall had to get the Beyer fight out of the way and they were then expected to meet.
    Reid didnt want to face Calzaghe in a unification but Woodhall seemed to be interested

    Yet that same Sheika was coming off a win over G Johnson. It was considered a good win at the time

    Yes, solid win, but it was also considered a decent fight at the time on the Tyson undercard against a world class SMW, and level wise was not really different to Froch/Groves 1. Only difference is that one got hyped because it was a good tough fight and the other was a dull clear win

    Brewer and Echols were considered at a similar level. You say Brewer was knocked out by Echols but he wasnt. The ref stopped it and Brewer had scored several KDs yet the ref didnt stop it when Echols was troubled. The Brewer fight happened because Echols pulled out against facing Calzaghe in Calzaghes very fight before

    Bika had drawn with the WBC SMW champ.

    Veit was very good and the 2nd win was very impressive. Look at how Veit beat undefeated Brahmer who years later when faded was considered a good fight for C Smith the current SMW champ and still would be. People like to forget these details like with Sheika beating Johnson

    Leftovers? Many felt both Brewer and Mitchell deserved the decision over Ottke. Thats like saying Bute shouldnt have fought Froch because he had lost to Ward. It was a big fight against 2 of the top 5 SMWs and that many felt Mitchell should have been the WBA and IBF champ. So should Joshua not fight Fury because he has only drawn with Wilder? Thats the logic on display

    They were the only SMW champs who were willing to face him. Ottke wasnt interested. Reid didnt want to face Calzaghe when both were champs. Collins on more than one occasion decided not to face Calzaghe and as you note Hopkins decided against it even though Hopkins was in talks to fight B Mitchell at SMW. Dont forget that

    I think due to teh undefeated records the Lacy and Kessler unifications are thought of in a more favourable way

    Fair enough
     
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  4. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Lets point out a bit more then.
    Calzaghe was also old when he fought Hopkins and Jones and closer to the end of his career than either of them with a long career and many title fights.
    As with Dawson lets not forget that Dawson was fighting at SMW and featured on the Calzaghe/Lacy undercard and had an WBO NABO SMW title but decided to go up to LHW and not face Calzaghe
    When Dawson went to LHW it was to face on far more occasions than Calzaghe, fighters with more years between his age and theirs than Calzaghe and Hopkins

    Calzaghe was around 7 years younger than Hopkins
    Calzaghe was around 3 years younger than Jones

    Now Dawson goes to LHW and between a drained Adamek and loss to Pascal fights
    Ruiz around 9 years older than him
    Mendoza around 7 years older than him
    Johnson around 13 years older than him
    Tarver around 14 years older than him
    Tarver around 14 years older again than him
    Johnson around 13 years older again than him

    Dawson left SMW when he could have stayed to fight Calzaghe and fought many older fighters than Calzaghe but years later went back to SMW.
    Maybe Dawson was waiting for Calzaghe to get older as he fought Hopkins twice after Calzaghe beat him and -
    Hopkins was around 17 and a half years older than him
     
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  5. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I would have Ottke as the 3rd best SMW below Calzaghe and Eubank, but you are right Ottke was also very good
     
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  6. Ian_k

    Ian_k Active Member Full Member

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    In all fairness he only started slapping when he damaged his hands
    This was even quoted in a documentary of him
    At the start of his career he was knocking people out

    Didn't even do sparring for fights towards end of his csrcar
     
  7. The Akbar One

    The Akbar One Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Show me where the 168 pound Dawson was ever lined up to face Calzaghe? At 175, Dawson fought tougher opposition in Johnson(a guy that Lackasacky ducked like three times), Tarver, and Adamek, than Calzaghe ever faced at 168. That is a fact. Calzaghe wanted no parts of the young lion at 175.

    At 168, Calzaghe would have ducked Dawson the same way he ducked Froch. Stop kidding yourself.
     
  8. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    God dam you got real personal
     
  9. EJC83

    EJC83 New Member Full Member

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    I remember the then unbeaten Jeff Lacy saying that Calzaghe was a slapper, look how that turned out.

    Having to adjust your style and training that much would no doubt ruin many boxers and force them into retirement early, the fact that he kept winning, and winning some huge fights, is a testament to him and Enzo. Please nobody say that he didn't beat Hopkins, yes he got put down but after that he outclassed Hopkins, who stunk the place out like he did on so many occasions. He would have outboxed Froch too, no question.

    Calzaghe had a granite chin and an engine that gave him the perfect foundation to demonstrate his superior boxing abilities, he's an education to watch.
     
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  10. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You obviously didnt read it properly.
    Dawson was a SMW, who had a WBO NABO SMW title and fought on the Calzaghe/Lacy undercard. After Calzaghe fought Lacy, Dawson jumped up to LHW away from SMW in his very next fight, so they would never have been lined up as Dawson decided to jump away from SMW where Calzaghe was, for Dawson to fight lesser fights and fighters at LHW, only to drop back to SMW years later when Calzaghe had retired.

    Now tell me one incorrect thing on that comment. Or make yourself look silly by trying to say otherwise
    How is that a fact? Do explain because here are some real facts rather than just your obscured opinion.
    Tarver lost to Johnson and Johnson lost to Tarver. They were a similar level and both late on in their careers and in Johnsons case a long career, yet when Johnson was a young prime SMW he was beaten by Sheika in a box off to face Calzaghe. That is a fact. That was when Johnson was prime and years before he fought Tarver or Dawson. None of them were at the level of Eubank or Kessler and Johnson was losing to Sheika who is not in Calzaghes top 10 wins.
    Just look at how Tarver was losing to Harding and try and sell that.
    As for Adamek. What did he do at LHW that make you think he was tougher than anyone Calzaghe fought (This will be good) at 168? He went in 2 tough fights with Briggs which was about it at LHW. Briggs who lost in a first round to Green, Green who Mundine had beaten. Yes Mundine that was beaten clearly by Kessler not too long before old end of career Calzaghe beat Kessler.

    Now you say Calzaghe ducked Johnson but Johnson lost the box off against Sheika to get to face Calzaghe
    Calzaghe was due to fight Johnson if he beat Woods in their 3rd fight and was ringside only Johnson lost that fight


    They would have fought in 2004 if Johnson had waited instead of fighting Jones. Johnson told Dan Goosen to forget about Joe. Yet he came running back to Calzaghe when Joe became a superstar after whooping Lacy.

    BBC Tuesday, 8 June, 2004

    But Johnson is adamant Calzaghe has lost his chance, saying: "The fight is off. I'm not interested in fighting Joe Calzaghe any more.Johnson refused to wait for the fight to be rescheduled on 04,fact.

    Calzaghe agreed to fight Johnson in September 06 on the condition that Johnson beat Woods in their 3rd fight. However Johnson lost and missed his chance. Calzaghe was ringside for this fight - some scared ducker hey. Why do people leave out this information when discussing this issue?

    and I have a hard time believing Calzaghe would duck an old journeyman like Johnson to fight a younger, much more dangerous Mikkel Kessler!!! and yes Calzaghe WAS injury prone. he was notorious for hand problems.....Many of his fights including Lacy had to be rescheduled. He still ended up fighting them. He wanted to reschedule the Johnson fight but like i saidJ ohnson said he was "done" with Calzaghe.

    johnson had several losses before he popped up to knockout jones jr

    also not once throughout calzaghes reign was johnson ranked in the ringmag top 10 at SMW

    Some more facts for you

    No I dont think he did either.
    He was getting on in years, had had a long career with 24 world title fights and well over 40 fights, proven himself as the #1 at SMW & LHW and I think only went to LHW to get the fights with Hopkins and Jones that he was not able to get years previously. I think if they had of gone to SMW like they had both previously suggested, I doubt he would have gone to LHW at all, but when Hopkins finally agreed to face him he went up to LHW and beat him. I think it was a bit like L Lewis wanting the Tyson fight as a fighter who was part of his era.

    Tell me how Calzaghe ducked Froch and I do mean explain it out clearly.
    When Calzaghe was champ, he fought Kessler the unified WBC WBA champ. After that win he could have faced unknown British champ Froch who was not widely known or face the far more dangerous Hopkins for a shot at the LHW title in a far bigger fight and almost anyone even years later would have favoured Hopkins to beat Froch.
    So how did he duck Froch? He didnt. Froch didnt even win a SMW title until after Calzaghe had left SMW, had 2 fights at LHW and retired. Thats another fact for you lol.

    Now who did Calzaghe ever duck at SMW? He didnt. That is why he is the most accomplished SMW ever.
    You say Calzaghe would have ducked Dawson at 168 which is just your opinion when facts are Dawson jumped away from SMW after being on Calzaghes undercard to face lesser fighters


    Now you have some real facts rather than your opinion that you call a fact lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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  11. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    @The Akbar One

    You appear to have an issue with Calzaghe but not Dawson

    Dawson below in LHW title fights fought Adamek (5/6 years older)
    Adameks LHW resume is made up of 2 tough fights with Briggs, so between a drained Adamek in winning a title and loss to Pascal he fights

    Ruiz around 9 years older than him
    Mendoza around 7 years older than him
    Johnson around 13 years older than him
    Tarver around 14 years older than him
    Tarver around 14 years older again than him
    Johnson around 13 years older again than him

    He won a world title again against Hopkins when Hopkins was 18 years older than him

    Yet you have an issue with Calzaghe going up in weight, travelling to America and beating Hopkins with 3 American judges and an American ref in his first title fight at LHW after a long career that he was coming to the end of when there was around 7 years between their ages and 4 years before Dawson beat Hopkins which is arguably Dawsons best win
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  12. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I only skimmed over this but there are some parts that are incorrect and I think something that you have probably only read on here and not factually looked at for yourself
     
  13. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He did.
    Accept it and move on... Or at least try to
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  14. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It was to build his name to an American audience for the Hopkins fight.
    Still look at how Calzaghe stops Manfredo and people comment but then look at the stoppages Manfredo suffered to Chavez Jnr and Bika and you will see they are not too different and get no comment
     
  15. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    LOL That's why Slappy snubbed his Welsh fans &ducked Hopkins offer of a rematch in Wales That would have been a thankyou to his devoted fans Instead he showed them the finger & went into his well documented drugs & booze spiral He knew Hopkins was coming for him lol
     

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