Why is Willie Pep considered the FW GOAT?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Kell Macabe, Feb 1, 2022.


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  1. Kell Macabe

    Kell Macabe I don’t know s*** about boxing Full Member

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    Don’t know to much about pep or feather weight. Educate me.
     
    Kell Macabe, Feb 1, 2022
    Kell Macabe, Feb 1, 2022
    #1
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  2. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Jel, Feb 1, 2022
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  3. Kell Macabe

    Kell Macabe I don’t know s*** about boxing Full Member

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    Kell Macabe, Feb 1, 2022
    Kell Macabe, Feb 1, 2022
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  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He had an outstanding record.

    I might well rate Saddler above him.
     
    Unforgiven, Feb 2, 2022
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  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I do.

    Saddler beat Pep head to head 3 out of 4 meetings and stopped him all three times.
     
    Saintpat, Feb 2, 2022
    Saintpat, Feb 2, 2022
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  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah it's quite conclusive really.
    I think Saddler edges it.
     
    Unforgiven, Feb 3, 2022
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  7. jabber74

    jabber74 Active Member Full Member

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    But Saddler didn't fare as well against common opponents. People also leave out the enormous amount of mileage Pep had on him, and a plane crash breaking his back to boot. It's true Saddler would have been a difficult fight at any time for Pep because of his size and style, but for all around ability, Pep had it all over him. Keep in mind, nobody rates Ken Norton over Ali despite the fact that in three fights, Ali never really beat him.
     
    jabber74, Feb 3, 2022
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  8. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He was pretty hard to hit.
     
    Flo_Raiden, Feb 3, 2022
    Flo_Raiden, Feb 3, 2022
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Saddler dogged Pepe's steps like Holyfield dogged Tyson's. And like Holyfield, Saddler was eerily confident of beating Pep.
     
    McGrain, Feb 3, 2022
    McGrain, Feb 3, 2022
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  10. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    I personally feel Pep did enough to secure his legacy as the greatest ever featherweight before he even met Saddler. In a H2H sense, the Saddler fights hurt Pep’s legacy (1-3 sounds damning) but much of it comes down to if you rate the greatest based on H2H or achievement. You could make an argument that Sugar Ray Leonard was greater than Roberto Duran p4p on the same basis.

    To be the greatest in a division doesn’t mean he has to be able to beat anyone else whoever fought there. They’ll always be another fighter who was the kryptonite to a greater fighter’s style. And I think that’s the case with Pep and Saddler.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
    Jel, Feb 3, 2022
    Jel, Feb 3, 2022
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  11. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Saddler's size and style was poison for Pep; doesn't mean he had a better over all career.
     
    FrankinDallas, Feb 3, 2022
    FrankinDallas, Feb 3, 2022
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  12. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It’s a mixed bag.

    Lulu Perez and Tommy Collins both stopped Pep. Saddler knocked out both.
     
    Saintpat, Feb 3, 2022
    Saintpat, Feb 3, 2022
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  13. jabber74

    jabber74 Active Member Full Member

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    You are talking at the very end of Pep's extremely long career. When he finally lost it, he was like Roy Jones in the end. Neither of those fighters could carry Willie's jockstrap.
     
    jabber74, Feb 3, 2022
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  14. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Dude rips off 20+ straight wins, including some over good fighters, but only in the ones he loses is he shot.

    Exactly what point in Pep’s career can we say results count? This guy gets more passes than a supermodel drunk off her ass at a dive bar.
     
    Saintpat, Feb 3, 2022
    Saintpat, Feb 3, 2022
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You don't really need the past-prime excuse when discussing Pep as number one IMO.

    You only need to decide if you offset his work at the weight more highly than Saddler's. I do. Pep beat more made men at thew eight and his, what was it, 135-1-1 run is maybe the best in the history of the sport, and it was conducted at FW.

    I've no real objection to Saddler as number one but I will say this: when I went into my deep dive at the weight I expected (and personally wanted) to find Saddler as my number one and he was my number one provisionally. But Pep overhauled him in the analysis.
     
    McGrain, Feb 3, 2022
    McGrain, Feb 3, 2022
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