Why is Willie Pep considered the FW GOAT?

There are plenty that rank Willie Pep as the greatest pound for pound, even over Ray Robinson. He's one of those forgotten greats that many seem to overlook or underrate. He had 241 professional fights which is insane by modern standards, and he really only started losing at the end, after a plane crash broke his back. Then, a few guys, FINALLY, were able to zero in on him... In his prime he would never have lost any of those fights. He gets my vote for best feather of all-time, and a case could be made for pound-for-pound of any weight.

 

The loss was to Sammy Angott at lightweight, I think.

 

In fairness to Willie Pep didn't he lose the 3rd bout to Sandy Saddler on a dislocated shoulder ? after arguably having the better of it despite the knockdown ? Pep also won the 2nd fight with Saddler pretty clearly. And the 4th fight by all accounts was one of the dirtiest fights in history, that in modern day boxing it might of ended in a DQ but i can't comment on that.

I've also heard alot of people say Willie Pep wasn't the same fighter after his plane crash, again i can't comment on that but i'm sure a plane crash would have some effects on you.

Also just because Saddler beat Pep doesn't necessarily mean he should be rated above Pep. I mean look at Fritzie Zivic he won a fight series against Henry Armstrong, but yet no one rates Zivic over Armstrong. I know Saddler is much more highely rated than Zivic was, but you get my point.

 

That's what I don't know about .. it';s assumed he runs through Saddler pre injury ? The Saddler losses are what tarnishes him to many that are not experts on his career ..

 

Yep Jel....it was Pep's 1st loss ever...by Samuel Engotti aka Sammy Angott in 1943.

 

Now, Angott is a hugely underrated fighter in my opinion. He hardly ever gets a mention anywhere but was a very fine lightweight who was good enough to beat not only Pep but Ike Williams by TKO, Bob Montgomery and future welterweight champion Johnny Bratton among others.

 

Exactly, the voice of reason. stay safe buddy.

 

Willie had been champ for years before that. The plane crash could have had an effect on Pep as well. I'm not sure Willie was still at his best.

 

That pesky plane crash might have taken something out of him.

 

Find me reports at the time that indicate this.

Look at his record after the plane crash. Explain why it only affected him vs. Saddler.

 

How do you know it only affected him vs Saddler? If Sandy Saddler was an elite Featherweight himself. Garden variety challengers may not have been good enough to detrone an 80% Willie Pep. As opposed to Saddler who was a terror in the ring.
How many years did he hold the title before the first Saddler fight? I'm not saying he was shot, Ali wasn't shot in 1973 but not what he had been at his peak when Norton beat him. Do you rank Norton over Ali?

 

If Norton had stopped Ali three times and not gotten knocked out early with fair frequency I’d rate him pretty highly.

 

On the other hand Pep did manage to comeback and beat Saddler in fight 2. Still waiting for Ali to beat Norton. Anyway let's say your right and Willie was peak. How long did he hold the 126lbs crown? How long did Saddler hold it?

I've always had Saddler #2 because Pep accomplished alot before they met as well as the possibility that the planecrash took some from him or maybe just it was Sandy's time. Pep held the title and dominated the division after beating Chalky Wright. ( who was the hardest puncher anyone ever saw anywhere)

 

We agree to disagree.