Why isn't Ali's performance in Ali vs Frazier II as highly rated as the Fight of the Century?

Yes, that's true but Ali is clearly at his peak against Williams. His speed, movement and the accuracy of his punches were incredible.

Ali was already past his prime when he made his comeback in 1970.

 

Many have said the same about Ali's performance in the Frazier rematch. He was still recovering from the broken jaw he suffered at the hands of Ken Norton. It is not remembered fondly due to both fighters being lesser versions of when they met 3 years earlier.

 

Ali was 28 with no wear an tear, Fury was out for same time and no ones saying he's past prime or showing the effects of a lay off, a worse lay off than Ali's, considering he put a Ricky Hatton on in weight and with the coke etc. People think he might even be better....To many excuses I feel with Ali, who comeback 3 yrs younger than Fury also

 

But I'm not talking about Fury. I'm talking about Ali.

It's obvious that he was not the same fighter when he came back in 1970.

 

I'm not sure that was a factor because Ali gave a better performance in the second Norton fight four months earlier.

Ali seemed to have a game plan intended on nullifying Frazier. It wasn't the sort of tactic that made for an impressive, eye catching performance but it worked.

 

The second fight was far inferior.
Though also past their best in Manilla, they both struggled mightily in an Epic Effort that broke the record for punches thrown.

Just because Ali got away with clinching & holding behind the head constantly does not make it right.
It was cheating. It prevented a good competitive fight.

In Manilla he was warned twice early-which was the only reason we got a great fight.
Whoever it is, if they *cheat* this way repeatedly, they need to be forced to stop.
If not, deduct points & before long forfeit the fight-lose.

The referee did the right thing.
Frazier's camp had successfully prevented Ali from cheating throughout the third fight.

 

Well I’m really hammered right now, I turned 46 today and have been doing beer shots ,etc all day,so I probably won’t want to score it again tonight. I promise I’ll do it before Monday and with an unbiased view . I did awhile back but I lost those cards and I think one can learn at any age to look for certain things . Things ppl forget is aggression , ring generalship and landing clean shots . Frazier really shut down any ring generalship by applying pressure and cornering Ali . The rest was Frazier but, I’ll take another look .

 

This. Unfortunately many refs are afraid penalize or disqualify big name fighters.

 

I doubt he would've been the same anyway, without the lay off, he would've slowed some naturally with age anyway...I know your not talking Fury, but there is a perfect example of a lay off when your in your 20's not being a problem, but with Ali it was ??? Wouldn't happen to be the fighters he fought were better in the 70's than 60's ??? He could never dance for 15 flicking a jab and shuffling against Frazier, even 60's Ali would slow down and catch hell at some stage. Norton always does well because he was prime and size wise he matched Ali and matched his jab. Ali is beatable by at least 10 fighters past and present that I'd make him under dog against.

 

Good post. Was there history between Ali an the ref ??? There was one ref that was on it big time with Ali, I forget who though, Perez maybe, where he just wouldn't swallow his crap

 

It doesn't matter what effect a lay-off has on other fighters. It will affect different people in different ways.

The fact is that Ali was clearly never the same fighter again when he came back. And if you want to include other fighters then Fury was not nearly as effective in the first Wilder fight as he was in the second.

Fury himself said that he wasn't match fit for the first fight but in the second fight he would be. He said this before the rematch and was therefore not being wise after the event.

Ali had not had the chance to become match fit when he first fought Frazier and even when he had, it was clear that he was not the same fighter he had been before the lay-off. He never reached that level again.

As for your last sentence... The less said about that, the better.

 

Brilliant post.

 

Ali was unhappy that Perez stepped in before the end of round 2, thinking he'd heard the bell, when he had Frazier in trouble in their second bout. On the other hand, Frazier's corner was annoyed at the way Perez let Ali hold Frazier round the back of the neck throughout the fight.

Ali also wasn't best pleased with the way Perez did nothing about Chuck Wepner's persistent rabbit punching in 1975.

Perez later awarded a knockdown to Wepner when Ali lost his balance after Wepner landed a body blow while stepping on Ali's foot. That didn't help matters either.

After the Wepner fight, Ali publicly criticised Perez who ended up taking Ali to court.

I can't think off the top of my head of any other fights I've seen where Perez was definitely the referee. He looked pretty useless on the basis of these two fights.

 

Carlos Padilla warned Ali twice in the early stages of the Thrilla in Manila for holding and also pulling Frazier's head into the padding in the corner of the ring.

This prevented Ali from employing the same tactics he had used in their second fight.

It just takes a referee who is strong enough to do his job.
Padilla was, Perez wasn't.

 

I can’t believe you won’t entertain the idea that there’s been 10 fighters that could beat Ali..Your view on Ali is that of the majority with regards to his lay off though,me personally, I think there’s to many excuses with him in an out the ring