Why isn't Carnera in the IBHOF?

And yet you think he is better than Carnera who was a championship standard world champion? How does he get to be a world champion without being championship standard? You can't possibly still think they pulled the wool over the eyes of thousands of fans and fight figures with that Hollywood baloney?

 

No ,I've stated I don't think Carnera was championship standard.I think Sharkey took a dive.

 

So you refuse to tell us where you rate Carnera as an all time heavyweight despite all the time you've spent over the past few weeks on thread after thread praising him ? I'll ask you again, direct, again, where do you rate Primo Carnera as an all time heavyweight ?

 

I rate Primo outside the top ten. I rate him below Floyd Patterson but above jimmy Braddock, Micheal Moorer, buster Douglas, Leon spinks, Micheal Spinks, Shannon Briggs and 90% if not all of the large numbered ABC title belt holders and claimants whom never managed stature of being the worlds best.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives...roof-scarce-suspicion-reigns-article-1.525493

 

Care to "name" the fighters above him or do you intend to continue to dance around an accountable answer ? You've been building your case for him for weeks. Why not stop the charade and give a concrete answer so we can define your point and position.

 

There are a ton of champions above Primo.

Louis
Ali
Marciano
Dempsey
Holmes
Johnson
Lewis
Frazier (Before the Ali fight)
Jeffries
Tyson
Wlad klitschko
Foreman
Schmeling
Charles
Liston
Patterson
Walcott
Holyfield
Tunney
Baer
Johanssson
Bowe
Sharkey
Carnera
Douglas
Willard
Burns
Micheal Spinks
Braddock
Moorer
Leon Spinks
Briggs


And including only SHW fighters

Lewis
Wlad klitschko
Bowe
Carnera
Douglas
Willard
Briggs
Bonecrusher smith
Page
John Tate
Valuev

 

What is this nonsense supposed to show?
You need to demonstrate how you think this adds up. This stuff simply does not add up anymore. It's garbage folklore created from artistic license.

 

That article shows how off the mark some experts were about suspicions of dubious activity in the past.

 

I think it shows that some reporters had, and still have doubts about the authenticity of the ko.
It will never be proven definitely one way or the other.

 

It's definitely a KO using all common sense.
Why would Sharkey pretend to go out in such a theatrical way as to whip his head up and make a funny face? It makes no sense. Neither does it make sense that a HW title fight was fixed. Neither does it make sense because Sharkeys body reacts exactly the way you'd expect to following the kinetic notion of Carnera's punch.

His leg collapses from under him, and he falls in a very unnatural way that people do when they are knocked out. You dont consciously fall the way Sharkey did.

 

I don't claim to be smart but I believe I have commonsense and some experience of boxing.
Why ? Sharkey was on the way out and knew it .Would he have been confident of defeating either of his leading contenders Schmeling or Baer ? I very much doubt it. He and Schmeling had already fought twice in two lack lustre bouts and Schmeling was a German ,so no big gate there. He may have looked at Baer and thought ,this guy ruined my friend Ernie Schaaf and he could easily do the same to me,Baer hit like thunder and Sharkey would have been in a war just trying to survive.

Its possible Carnera's Mob offered enough $$$ to make going for a swim an attractive alternative to getting his brains banged out by Baer.
It isn't like it would have been the first time they offered $$$ inducements for a fighter to take a dive.
It seems a plausible and possible scenario to me.

He could have been offered a big pay day to take the plunge,a bird in the hand?

I think it's a theatrical dive ,you disagree fine,either way it will always have a lingering aroma to it,imo lets leave it at that.

 

The film proves beyond doubt it was genuine. Only those who wrote on behalf of what they read (rather than what the actual film shows) have trouble with authenticity. It is coloured by folklore. It's all nonsense. The film stands up.

 

Nope the film does not show the punch landing and only one man knows if it was hard enough to register a ko,and he is dead.Personally I couldn't give a f*ck if Carnera is in the HOF or not, neither he or Joe Grim for that matter!

It's a meaningless list that has been progressively devalued over the years from one reflecting real ability and greatness to one celebrating popularity.If they could speak I should think the old timers who gave their lives, guts, and blood to the sport would be turning in their graves to see some of the more recent inclusions. Come one come all, as Paul McCartney said,"open the door and let em in!"

 

Sharkey maintained the legitimacy of the fight until his death.
I guess don't underestimate the long term commitment of the mob, who apparently forced his mouth shut for six decades and three generations.

Honestly, if there was a fix, whoever was involved in it would've been irrelevant or dead by the time Sharkey was 90. If he was forced to give up the world heavyweight title against his will, there's no way a proud boxer would take that to the grave with them 60+ years later.